This is another before and after view in 's-Hertogenbosch. And it is an interesting street because in the before situation there was no cycling infrastructure at all, which is rare for a more important street in the Netherlands. But also in the after situation the city of 's-Hertogenbosch choose to build cycle lanes and not cycle paths. There are far less cycle lanes than cycle paths in the Netherlands but here they were deliberately chosen.
This will have to do with the fact that the number of cars using this street is relatively low. Because although it is a main route for cyclists, it is not a main arterial route for cars. For motorised traffic this is just a 'neighbourhood connector road'. Meaning it serves as the access road for a particular part of the city but it does not provide a fast through route for cars that need to be in a different part of the city.
The remaining car lanes are narrower than the cycle lanes.
What is also interesting to see, is that the minimal width of the cycle paths was maintained even if that meant that the remaining space for the car lanes was too narrow to even fit a car. (As can be seen in the picture above.) This means that motorists will sometimes have to drive over the sides of the cycle lane. But because of the colour they know they are invading the space of cyclists while they are driving at that narrow spot. Most if not all drivers will sub-consiously reduce their speed and look out for cyclists. The red of the cycle lane is not paint, it is a coloured asphalt so it the colour will not wear off. Which is especially important now that cars drive over it in part.
The street (in black with arrow) is just a tiny fragment of the city's main cycling network.
The city of 's-Hertogenbosch is updating its entire cycle network under a 2009 cycling plan. This street is just a tiny fragment of the network.
I have to say, Mark, that I'm not impressed with this. The concrete in the middle of the road creates a pinch-point and drivers will pull sideways into the cycle lane when they get to that point.
If a device is needed to slow down motorists, it could be done differently. Perhaps two concrete structures, protecting each cycle lane and forcing drivers going in opposing directions to slow down and negotiate.
It reminds me of places in the UK where I had problems in the past. For example, here and here.
However, context makes a huge difference. The cycle lanes in your example are wider than is typical in the UK, and I would hope that motor traffic levels are lower.
Hi David, I think you are a bit too demanding here ;-). The situations in your links are not comparable either in my opinion. While I agree that there seem to be better options than what they have built, the concrete in the middle is really no problem. It is only just before a 90 degree turn so cars have to (and do) slow down there to almost walking pace. The pinch point was there in the before situation too and because of the big red piece of asphalt now, it is better than it was. The rest of the pinch points can be driven over, which was not the case in the before situation, AND there are the huge cycle lanes there too now. So it is now more clear which part of the road belongs to whom. Also the middle stripes disappeared what makes that on-coming motorised traffic now has to negotiate rather than that they just go to the side on the path of the cyclists. Of course I would have rather seen a separate cycle path here too (which could be done with this size street) but the amount of motorised traffic is really very low so that would have been a bit overdone. All in all, this is an improvement over the before situation.
Cars on cycle lanes when the road narrows? Naughty, naughty! Anyone looking cycling videos from the UK on youtube will find plenty of close passes and cars squeezing through first on the pinch points. When will we see one from this road? :-)
Joking aside, the cycle lane doesn't look very dangerous on the video, so I guess it'll work.
That design looks like a bad precedent to me as well. If the traffic level is so low, why is a pedestrian refuge (which is what it appears to be – have I got this wrong?) necessary anyway? And if the cars are slowed so much for the bend anyway, why do they need the constriction?
I think UK traffic engineers might look at this and use it to justify some very bad practices
Regarding the comments of now both Davids. Since I still didn't understood what you two saw that I don't ('bad design'), I rewatched the video and now I think I understand you two focus on the part from about 10 to 30 seconds. What you see there is exceptional design for an exceptional situation. It is the edge of a square with a small number of shops. Because of the shops there is parking at a 90 degree angle (to the left in the video) and cars going in and out of these parking bays need to be able to make that turn, without hindering other traffic too much. That is why the two middle lines are in the street. To give cars room for that action. That area begins and ends with a T-junction and just connecting the lines until these crossings creates room to wait for pedestrians, but I don't think that was created as a true pedestrian refuge. It just 'emerged' as an added bonus because of the traffic calming and traffic regulating measurement that these lines really are.
Mark, thanks for your explanation. What you say of course makes a lot of sense. I'm sure that you wouldn't have used it as an example if you didn't think it was a good example. In a sense, this is quite interesting in itself. It's a cultural thing.
I think that what we're concerned about is that if you were to look at it from a British road designer's point of view, you squinted a bit, and took it out of context, this could almost seem like providing an example of the same thing, even though it really is not the same.
I'll show you another example. This and This were built on one of my commuting routes in the UK. The road has a 30 mph (50 km/h) speed limit, but only just. Just a few short metres before the first example, the limit is 60 mph (100 km/h). Many drivers didn't slow much by that point. They came a lot closer to me on the lower speed limit road than on the 60 mph section. Those reservations were, and appear to remain, dangerous.
Context is very important, of course. In your example, a car travelling at 100 km/h would be very unlikely. You'd never find an example like this on a Dutch A road (N Road in the Netherlands) with cyclists "sharing the road" in such conditions.
Are cyclists allowed to cycle two aside on the road, as they do in the before part of the video? In Germany that's almost always forbidden and you would get honked at a lot. Drivers might even completely forget to overtake you facing such an “unbelievable traffic hinderance”.
@Wolfgang: Yes, that is the basic rule in the Netherlands: cyclists are always allowed to cycle two abreast. On cycle paths (that is why those are almost always double the width of German paths) and also on the road. There is a small 'unless' in the law that says something like 'unless that is absolutely impossible' but that is hardly ever the case anymore.
The underlying reason for this behaviour and law is that cycling is considered to be a social activity and also parents need to be able to cycle next to their child.
This is indeed the main difference between the Netherlands and any other country in the world (including Denmark) where cycling two abreast is almost always forbidden unless marked otherwise.
@David Hembrow. Your two new examples do indeed look the same but as you state they are completely different. This is a residential street, not an A-road or an equivalent. The speed is 50kph and because of the turn no car could even get to 100kph in such a short stretch of road. The second part of the street is really what makes clear that it is indeed a residential street: the center line was removed and because of the red cycle lanes the room left for cars is not wide enough for two cars to pass. Since the cycle lanes are so clearly standing out drivers sub consciously understand that while they are negotiating passage with another motor vehicle they have to invade that space of cyclists which they can only do when there is no cyclist. If there is a cyclist they have to wait for those cyclists. This makes it impossible to drive at high speeds in this street in the first place. THAT is what this design is about.
Speaking of "road improvements", I've stumbled upon the N208 project in Hillegom (from Fietsersbond article mentioning their success at getting asphalt instead of tiles for the cycle path material).
The documents are in Dutch but the maps are pretty detailed. For those who are interested, compare the current situation with Google Street View (busy, noisy, community-damaging thoroughfare) with what's planned: roundabouts with priority for cyclists, proper off-road cycle paths, traffic lanes reduction and so on.
And the way they've been managing this project also seems interesting : detailed maps, information to the public with a "newspaper", involvement of the community in meetings, etc.
What the Dutch deliver -- and how they do it -- is pretty impressive from my point of view !
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The positive stuff Three types of safety - As well as preventing injuries and death, high quality cycling infrastructure addresses both subjective safety and social safety which are of vital importance in encouraging people to cycle. Dutch Safety Figures - Cyclists in the Netherlands are the safest in the world, but it has little if anything to do with "safety in numbers". Sustainable safety - the principles which have lead to Dutch roads, streets and cycle-paths being safe. A million per hour - The scale of cycling in the Netherlands is enormous. Dutch people make more cycle journeys each day than the entire English speaking world put together. Campaigning - a collection of posts about how to campaign for more cycling, including reference to "Stop the child murder", a successful campaign from the 1970s. What Works - examples of policy, infrastructure and campaigning which have made a different in the Netherlands. Superhighways - "Cycling superhighways" are not a new idea in the Netherlands Cycle Paths - Well designed cycle paths benefit all cyclists, regardless of experience or speed Segregation without cycle paths - you don't always need a cycle path to keep cyclists safe from motorists Unravelling of routes is vitally important History - how the Netherlands got to where it is now. See especially "Stop the child murder" Before and After - views of places before and after they have been transformed for cycling Directness - examples of prioritising cycling Traffic Lights - examples of how cyclists can be prioritised and kept safe at traffic light junctions. Note that it's almost always possible to turn right on a red light when cycling in the Netherlands. Roundabouts - roundabouts in the Netherlands have one very important feature to learn from: They keep cyclists away from motor vehicles. This is far more important than the differences in geometry vs. roundabouts in other countries. Exceptional infrastructure is always nice to see, but remember that a dense network of mundane routes is far more important to boost cycling modal share Gritting of cycle paths - dealing with snow and ice. Children - It may seem hackneyed, but children really are the future. If they can't cycle safely then where will future adult cyclists come from ? This is why children should be the primary focus of campaigners. Note also that according to UNICEF, Dutch children are the happiest in the world. School travel - Everyone knows that Dutch children cycle to school, but it's a surprise to many people that school trips are also usually by bike. Cycle Parking - including our favourite design of stand. Cycle Parking at railway stations, see in particular Groningen and Assen as each have multiple posts showing how the cycle parking has grown over time. Health effects of cycling Road Works - It's important that cyclists are thought of when there are road works. If the environment becomes hostile for cyclists then they may stop cycling and never start again. Commuting - Commuting cyclists are interesting, but they're not the only people who should ride bikes. Anatomy of a reliable everyday bicycle - the common features of bikes used by nearly every person every day in the Netherlands. Speed - Some people have the idea that Dutch cyclists are slow. This isn't true. It is just that in the Netherlands, everyone cycles, including the slow people. Fast cyclists are as fast as anywhere. These posts show people who ride faster than average, using the same infrastructure as those who ride slower.
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A cyclist in a cycling family living in the capital of the cycling province of the world's greatest cycling country.
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11 comments:
I have to say, Mark, that I'm not impressed with this. The concrete in the middle of the road creates a pinch-point and drivers will pull sideways into the cycle lane when they get to that point.
If a device is needed to slow down motorists, it could be done differently. Perhaps two concrete structures, protecting each cycle lane and forcing drivers going in opposing directions to slow down and negotiate.
It reminds me of places in the UK where I had problems in the past. For example, here and here.
However, context makes a huge difference. The cycle lanes in your example are wider than is typical in the UK, and I would hope that motor traffic levels are lower.
Hi David, I think you are a bit too demanding here ;-). The situations in your links are not comparable either in my opinion. While I agree that there seem to be better options than what they have built, the concrete in the middle is really no problem. It is only just before a 90 degree turn so cars have to (and do) slow down there to almost walking pace. The pinch point was there in the before situation too and because of the big red piece of asphalt now, it is better than it was. The rest of the pinch points can be driven over, which was not the case in the before situation, AND there are the huge cycle lanes there too now. So it is now more clear which part of the road belongs to whom. Also the middle stripes disappeared what makes that on-coming motorised traffic now has to negotiate rather than that they just go to the side on the path of the cyclists.
Of course I would have rather seen a separate cycle path here too (which could be done with this size street) but the amount of motorised traffic is really very low so that would have been a bit overdone. All in all, this is an improvement over the before situation.
Cars on cycle lanes when the road narrows? Naughty, naughty! Anyone looking cycling videos from the UK on youtube will find plenty of close passes and cars squeezing through first on the pinch points. When will we see one from this road? :-)
Joking aside, the cycle lane doesn't look very dangerous on the video, so I guess it'll work.
That design looks like a bad precedent to me as well. If the traffic level is so low, why is a pedestrian refuge (which is what it appears to be – have I got this wrong?) necessary anyway? And if the cars are slowed so much for the bend anyway, why do they need the constriction?
I think UK traffic engineers might look at this and use it to justify some very bad practices
David
Regarding the comments of now both Davids. Since I still didn't understood what you two saw that I don't ('bad design'), I rewatched the video and now I think I understand you two focus on the part from about 10 to 30 seconds.
What you see there is exceptional design for an exceptional situation. It is the edge of a square with a small number of shops. Because of the shops there is parking at a 90 degree angle (to the left in the video) and cars going in and out of these parking bays need to be able to make that turn, without hindering other traffic too much. That is why the two middle lines are in the street. To give cars room for that action. That area begins and ends with a T-junction and just connecting the lines until these crossings creates room to wait for pedestrians, but I don't think that was created as a true pedestrian refuge. It just 'emerged' as an added bonus because of the traffic calming and traffic regulating measurement that these lines really are.
Mark, thanks for your explanation. What you say of course makes a lot of sense. I'm sure that you wouldn't have used it as an example if you didn't think it was a good example. In a sense, this is quite interesting in itself. It's a cultural thing.
I think that what we're concerned about is that if you were to look at it from a British road designer's point of view, you squinted a bit, and took it out of context, this could almost seem like providing an example of the same thing, even though it really is not the same.
I'll show you another example. This and This were built on one of my commuting routes in the UK. The road has a 30 mph (50 km/h) speed limit, but only just. Just a few short metres before the first example, the limit is 60 mph (100 km/h). Many drivers didn't slow much by that point. They came a lot closer to me on the lower speed limit road than on the 60 mph section. Those reservations were, and appear to remain, dangerous.
Context is very important, of course. In your example, a car travelling at 100 km/h would be very unlikely. You'd never find an example like this on a Dutch A road (N Road in the Netherlands) with cyclists "sharing the road" in such conditions.
Are cyclists allowed to cycle two aside on the road, as they do in the before part of the video? In Germany that's almost always forbidden and you would get honked at a lot. Drivers might even completely forget to overtake you facing such an “unbelievable traffic hinderance”.
@Wolfgang: Yes, that is the basic rule in the Netherlands: cyclists are always allowed to cycle two abreast. On cycle paths (that is why those are almost always double the width of German paths) and also on the road. There is a small 'unless' in the law that says something like 'unless that is absolutely impossible' but that is hardly ever the case anymore.
The underlying reason for this behaviour and law is that cycling is considered to be a social activity and also parents need to be able to cycle next to their child.
This is indeed the main difference between the Netherlands and any other country in the world (including Denmark) where cycling two abreast is almost always forbidden unless marked otherwise.
@David Hembrow. Your two new examples do indeed look the same but as you state they are completely different. This is a residential street, not an A-road or an equivalent. The speed is 50kph and because of the turn no car could even get to 100kph in such a short stretch of road. The second part of the street is really what makes clear that it is indeed a residential street: the center line was removed and because of the red cycle lanes the room left for cars is not wide enough for two cars to pass. Since the cycle lanes are so clearly standing out drivers sub consciously understand that while they are negotiating passage with another motor vehicle they have to invade that space of cyclists which they can only do when there is no cyclist. If there is a cyclist they have to wait for those cyclists. This makes it impossible to drive at high speeds in this street in the first place. THAT is what this design is about.
Cycling 2 abreast on the road is legal in the UK, AFAIUI.
Of course that won't stop you being shouted at and of course no cycle lane/path is wide enough for that.
Speaking of "road improvements", I've stumbled upon the N208 project in Hillegom (from Fietsersbond article mentioning their success at getting asphalt instead of tiles for the cycle path material).
The documents are in Dutch but the maps are pretty detailed. For those who are interested, compare the current situation with Google Street View (busy, noisy, community-damaging thoroughfare) with what's planned: roundabouts with priority for cyclists, proper off-road cycle paths, traffic lanes reduction and so on.
And the way they've been managing this project also seems interesting : detailed maps, information to the public with a "newspaper", involvement of the community in meetings, etc.
What the Dutch deliver -- and how they do it -- is pretty impressive from my point of view !
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