tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post8284146776802277925..comments2024-03-27T12:53:39.298+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: Perfect driving will never happen (Campaign for Sustainable Safety, not Strict Liability - part 2)David Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75527163171253856012018-09-18T14:06:04.945+02:002018-09-18T14:06:04.945+02:00Some very interesting arguments here. This did mak...Some very interesting arguments here. This did make me question my opinions and beliefs, especially around the efficacy of laws and punishments. That said, I found myself disagreeing with much. The discussion of roadkill is intriguing, but it makes an unfortunate equation between the 'irrational' and 'darting' behaviour of animals and that of cyclists on the road. Unfortunately inAshleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08488987825454069118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-32306277663860448192016-06-05T11:44:54.158+02:002016-06-05T11:44:54.158+02:00Where are all of the campaigns to create pictogram...Where are all of the campaigns to create pictograms in mooseese and ducklish to warn the animals about the cars, and all of the efforts to make them wear helmets and high viz jackets? When will we see the day when all of them walk on the left side of the road facing traffic, and why don't we take away a meal as a fine for them or have cops sternly lecturing them about the dangers of cars and Multiparty Democracy Todayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13359081992141220593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-51680598023330848072016-03-17T11:27:17.022+01:002016-03-17T11:27:17.022+01:00Even if we did have nobody ever making a mistake o...Even if we did have nobody ever making a mistake on the roads leading to a crash never happening, would that make you willing to cycle between large trucks at something like 70 km/h? Multiparty Democracy Todayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13359081992141220593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-60702307349335990852015-10-22T07:10:18.196+02:002015-10-22T07:10:18.196+02:00I disagree with the accident wording. Deliberate a...I disagree with the accident wording. Deliberate acts of course are no accidents, but if a road fails to protect it's users, like a collision could have been prevented with a cycle path for example and it was feasible to add a cycle path, then if the road designers do not install one even if they are told about all the benefits and why they are good, then it is no accident if they fail to addMultiparty Democracy Todayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13359081992141220593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-88448644985552259772013-08-08T16:19:50.597+02:002013-08-08T16:19:50.597+02:00The law should take into account that a person who...The law should take into account that a person who decides to operate an inherently dangerous machine will be accountable, even if he/she follows the law. Operating a combustion engine with 50+ bhp to move a tonne of metal on the public highway certainly carries much more risk to others than if that person decided to walk. If an accident happens, this intrinsic risk should be taken into account, Gerumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478750314920509744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-36982466727251788382013-07-30T16:41:26.964+02:002013-07-30T16:41:26.964+02:00@ Richard: "Perhaps when automatically driven...@ Richard: "Perhaps when automatically driven cars become the standard, mistakes from motorists will no longer be an issue. In this event, will normal people become comfortable cycling on normal roads in countries like the UK?<br />"<br /><br />I believe, this is a (car)technicians dream. What will happen is, that as soon as cars are automatically forced to prevent accidents, other roadseiklmeiklhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17153138853126372218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-48898170095831615742013-07-24T13:13:46.133+02:002013-07-24T13:13:46.133+02:00I too dislike the casual use of the word "acc...I too dislike the casual use of the word "accident". If a wasp flies in through an open window and attacks the driver, causing him to loss control through being distracted, it's reasonable to call it an accident. It's not an accident if a driver collides with another road user whilst sending a text message, as it's not necessary and it takes a conscious effort to pick upRoberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07251409182403605985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-41904925767351921062013-07-23T01:05:22.932+02:002013-07-23T01:05:22.932+02:00Drew, gutterbunny, others, you're very worried...Drew, gutterbunny, others, you're very worried about the word "accident" and how much fines cost but I think you've missed the main point of my piece above.<br /><br />It really doesn't matter what word you use to describe crashes, they're going to occur anyway unless something is done to stop them.<br /><br />The statistics show that drivers on Dutch roads are far less David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75854907502859376902013-07-22T22:29:26.764+02:002013-07-22T22:29:26.764+02:00When a license is granted to a motorist, it is not...When a license is granted to a motorist, it is not expected that the training involved in preparing them for driving will do much good. Not seeing what is in front of me, driving too fast for conditions or while distracted; all of these are acceptable excuses for a crash. At least where I live in the USA. <br /><br />When a license is granted to a doctor/paramedic/nurse, there is a high Drew Devereuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13420775765955153979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-53322766375248494772013-07-22T21:24:52.972+02:002013-07-22T21:24:52.972+02:00Yes we need more infrastructure. But I don't ...Yes we need more infrastructure. But I don't see why more enforcement and liability can't be a way to procure the funds needed for the infrastructure.<br /><br />If tickets were more expensive a portion of the ticket could be diverted into a fund for building the infrastructure and enforcement.<br /><br />If you were to triple (amount could vary, using 1/3 for simplicity) the cost of allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-7733790757116316142013-07-22T10:47:32.413+02:002013-07-22T10:47:32.413+02:00Perhaps when automatically driven cars become the ...Perhaps when automatically driven cars become the standard, mistakes from motorists will no longer be an issue. In this event, will normal people become comfortable cycling on normal roads in countries like the UK?<br /><br />Dutch-style segregated cycle infrastructure would still preferable for many other reasons highlighted in this blog, even if motor vehicles no longer posed a threat, for Richard Adamfihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08694637403939363693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-19441615863407313892013-07-21T17:39:08.710+02:002013-07-21T17:39:08.710+02:00David, many thanks for another thought-provoking a...David, many thanks for another thought-provoking and well-argued piece. The unfortunate fact (in Britain, at least) is that our cycling infrastructure is mostly rubbish and this seems unlikely to change in the next decade or two. The government's recently-published plans for transport did not mention cycling or walking <b>even once</b>. The parliamentary debate on cycling scheduled for this Simon Burnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13403426221668094898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-11739075335662783272013-07-21T09:50:29.428+02:002013-07-21T09:50:29.428+02:00No David - the use of a neutral word such as crash...No David - the use of a neutral word such as crash or collision in the immediate reporting of an incident will not then prejudge the later reflection on the events and proving of blame or otherwise.<br /><br />I'mn advised that the unfortunate wording of strict (civil) liability is required by the legal system, when what is really meant is a presumed liability (known through H&S Dave Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11574227829528072780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-62769608563912378102013-07-20T19:59:26.653+02:002013-07-20T19:59:26.653+02:00Jambo, bikinginla: The problem of drivers crashing...Jambo, bikinginla: The problem of drivers crashing their cars and killing people is not a new problem.<br /><br />It's also not new for observers of this mess to imagine that training or education are enough to make everyone else into a better driver.<br /><br />However, these things only go so far because people are people.<br /><br />Modern human beings make mistakes at much the same rate David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-40801664927013369922013-07-20T19:26:16.001+02:002013-07-20T19:26:16.001+02:00While I agree wholeheartedly with your call for be...While I agree wholeheartedly with your call for better infrastructure, I cannot accept that most collisions are mere accidents or a matter of luck.<br /><br />When a driver speeds, fails to look before changing lanes, or goes through a stop signal, just to name a few, whatever follows is a direct result of that failure to drive safely or observe the law. It is not an accident, but a foreseeable Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-424859866935624282013-07-20T12:26:11.200+02:002013-07-20T12:26:11.200+02:00David, you make a persuasive argument and I do not...David, you make a persuasive argument and I do not disagree with the idea of sustainable safety at all. However, I feel accidents are more avoidable than you seem to. <br /><br />True, there will always be cases where a small lapse in concentration or decision making has severe consequences but I believe many accidents could be avoided simply if people had more respect for the useful, yet Jambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13651109520602083425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-31899024735380978142013-07-19T17:08:17.163+02:002013-07-19T17:08:17.163+02:00I still vividly recall our neighbour in Delden tel...I still vividly recall our neighbour in Delden telling me, "Even if a bike falls out of the sky, it's your fault." <br />Which, of course we know is blatantly false, but it stuck with me just the same.<br />Keep on plugging away. I enjoy reading your take on things. Only wish we had the political will over here to improve things. I mean, the city of Toronto can't even decideBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523653271715366168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-57605571911547972922013-07-19T16:31:35.965+02:002013-07-19T16:31:35.965+02:00Psychobikeology: Thanks for your reply and even mo...Psychobikeology: Thanks for your reply and even more the positive comment. I like your post and suggest that others read it too.<br /><br />The August <a href="http://www.hembrowcyclingholidays.com/studytour.html" rel="nofollow">study tour</a> is full now. However, <a href="http://www.hembrowcyclingholidays.com/contact.html" rel="nofollow">contact us </a>to make a booking. We will do another openDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-54034758190186357122013-07-19T15:30:17.330+02:002013-07-19T15:30:17.330+02:00Excellent post! Excellent post! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13405708498911061888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-64387347653310361992013-07-19T15:19:13.256+02:002013-07-19T15:19:13.256+02:00However this is not so much a failing of individua...<i>However this is not so much a failing of individual drivers but simply a normal part of the human condition. People are always distracted. We evolved to deal with travelling mostly at walking pace, with very small distances covered at a run but we're not actually faultless even at that speed.</i><br /><br />This is so true - this is what I refer to as <a href="http://Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com