tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post6179006542845462269..comments2024-03-27T12:53:39.298+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: The Outlaw CyclistDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-23381608039665867572010-01-31T03:52:47.392+01:002010-01-31T03:52:47.392+01:00If everyone becomes a cyclist, then I'd be cyc...If everyone becomes a cyclist, then I'd be cycling with everyone, and frankly in this country, I'd much rather not. I'd rather not be identified as a normal American, preferring to be an outlier, as I find many normal American behaviors not to my liking.<br /><br />David got it right. Many do take up cycling these days as it has been recognized as an outsider culture. I don't Raynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-30014475434920173412009-02-12T18:49:00.000+01:002009-02-12T18:49:00.000+01:00Oh, and...Macy's display wouldn't be so crass if t...Oh, and...<BR/><BR/>Macy's display wouldn't be so crass if they had fliers telling shoppers about the meaning of ghost bikes, and donated 1% of profits to the cause. Sometimes we can all win. Sometimes.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13601092971406547119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-62393322556906113552009-02-12T18:47:00.000+01:002009-02-12T18:47:00.000+01:00Right. In order to cycling in The States to becom...Right. In order to cycling in The States to become mainstream, it will, to some degree, have to surrender it's counter-culture elements. <BR/><BR/>Part of this will be learning not to antagonize the un-biked among us, to have compassion for folks trapped in cars, not hatred, fear, or pity. As Dr. Bronner says, we're all one or none.<BR/><BR/>I like to say that American cycling is perhaps Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13601092971406547119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-10330768882895134802009-02-12T17:06:00.000+01:002009-02-12T17:06:00.000+01:00David, thanks for your well thought through reply....David, thanks for your well thought through reply. Not too long at all.<BR/><BR/>I can't say I see cycling being "counter cultural" as a particularly good thing. The problem is that it then tends to be filled by groups who are even smaller cliques and that helps to push even further away the chance of it ever becoming a mass means of transport.<BR/><BR/>Cycling has to become a part of the David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-91505153513397663932009-02-12T16:29:00.000+01:002009-02-12T16:29:00.000+01:00One more comment, to DrMekon:Re: social psychology...One more comment, to DrMekon:<BR/><BR/>Re: social psychology and cycling<BR/><BR/>There is an identified phenomenon that occurs when cyclists are riding in groups of two or more, most often with one behind the other. Basically, a cyclist will cede responsibility for traffic decisions to the cyclist in front of him, simply following along unaware of traffic lights, stop signs etc. It's as if the Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13601092971406547119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-85509894168391826652009-02-12T16:19:00.000+01:002009-02-12T16:19:00.000+01:00Thanks for the commentary, David. There have been...Thanks for the commentary, David. There have been some nice pieces written lately debunking "outlaw cyclist" claims in the US. One often-cited is <A HREF="http://washcycle.typepad.com/home/2008/07/the-myth-of-the.html" REL="nofollow">The Myth of the Scofflaw Cyclist</A>, by WashCycle.<BR/><BR/>There is also a further element to the sociology/social psychology/anthropology (don't sue me if I Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13601092971406547119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-11696225635985995892009-02-02T16:21:00.000+01:002009-02-02T16:21:00.000+01:00DrMekon, I am but an amateur, so I thank you for y...DrMekon, I am but an amateur, so I thank you for your correction. It is of course always vitally important in any human endeavour to make sure we can tell US from THEM.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-43702138591736274332009-02-02T16:09:00.000+01:002009-02-02T16:09:00.000+01:00I can't be bothered to correct wikipedia, but the ...I can't be bothered to correct wikipedia, but the term outgroup comes from Tajfel and Turner's Social Identity Theory, and it's social psychology, not sociology.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, these things matter to US. We wouldn't what THEM sociologists claiming credit.<BR/><BR/>It's a fascinating area of research (esp minimal group paradigm), and often used in crowd behaviour. I can't find an example of it Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-32664228780112881502009-01-30T19:18:00.000+01:002009-01-30T19:18:00.000+01:00It's interesting to note that pretty much every tr...It's interesting to note that pretty much every traffic-related fatality is a result of a motor vehicle.<BR/><BR/>You don't hear about too many people dying in a single bike accident, or a bike-bike accident, or a bike-pedestrian accident.<BR/><BR/>Yet an automobile driver not paying attention and hitting a pedestrian or cyclist that they should have been yielding to barely makes the local media,Dave Feuchthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103790541088515008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-23197723961765067852009-01-30T09:01:00.000+01:002009-01-30T09:01:00.000+01:00Coco, I don't condone breaking the law and I recom...Coco, I don't condone breaking the law and I recommend lights also.<BR/><BR/>The point of the article is to point out disproportionality in the treatment of cyclists.<BR/><BR/>If the letter writers were truly interested in the safety of our roads, they would also complain about bad drivers as they leave a far greater trail of death and destruction. However, such complaints are comparatively rare.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-54301320327567426842009-01-30T01:28:00.000+01:002009-01-30T01:28:00.000+01:00I think this is probably pretty typical of anywher...I think this is probably pretty typical of anywhere in the U.S. as well - even in Portland where we tend to be a little less car-focused (we don't have people complaining about building sidewalks typically), when it snows, they only plow the roads, and the bike lanes and sidewalks end up all but completely impassable, even though it's still dangerous to drive.<BR/><BR/>A couple of things have Dave Feuchthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103790541088515008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-8094451444842983582009-01-30T00:56:00.000+01:002009-01-30T00:56:00.000+01:00Sounds like America. Read the comments in this pi...Sounds like America. Read the comments in this piece and you'd think we were resurrecting the USSR.<BR/>http://www.startribune.com/local/36088634.html<BR/><BR/>Yep, we're up against some stiff resistance.spiderleggreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306905473637646256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-27698576890411946732009-01-30T00:47:00.000+01:002009-01-30T00:47:00.000+01:00Hang on a minute: your sociological analysis is f...Hang on a minute: your sociological analysis is fine, but bad cycling, like bad driving or indeed any inconsiderate use of the road (eg dangerous pedestrians!) is not to be condoned. And the law, in my view, is not to be broken except in exceptional circumnstances. <BR/><BR/>As for the letters you quote, one is definitely whacky (make us standarise lights location and height!) but... what's cocosolishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17040377173478647027noreply@blogger.com