tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post3019187399689275031..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: Three types of safetyDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-46168629186722755762016-12-05T22:32:52.092+01:002016-12-05T22:32:52.092+01:00Fully separated cycle-paths may be the key. Our ...Fully separated cycle-paths may be the key. Our city, Houston, has recently implemented and invested in hike and bike trails and the difference is huge. I have my son in a trailer behind me and when we go for a ride I get on to the hike and bike trials almost immediately. Large numbers of walkers are also using the trails and I believe that it has created a type of culture around the Dwaynehttps://www.madrat.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-60420019109193020302015-12-07T14:34:22.570+01:002015-12-07T14:34:22.570+01:00Out of all the statements about what is an accepta...Out of all the statements about what is an acceptable number of traffic major injuries and fatalities, I think this one resonates with me the most. That number, is 0. It's 2015, how much longer do we have to wait? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsyvrkEjoXI&index=1&list=PLl2p5jFnfRhF4nt7O96lfAKW8EJartJeN. I am guessing that about 70 people died in Melbourne in the year this video Multiparty Democracy Todayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13359081992141220593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-43757609488024891222015-08-13T14:53:05.221+02:002015-08-13T14:53:05.221+02:00An excellent post. I agree entirely with your sum...An excellent post. I agree entirely with your summary of the 3 types safety. I work as a health & safety supervisor for an oil company, and the concept of subjective safety has never been raised in corporate literature or procedures - I now think it ought to be.<br /><br />I live in SW England but have just returned from a bicycle tour through parts of Belgium, the Netherlands and NW Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08459166343067686066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-36172434907139080962015-03-12T15:18:46.820+01:002015-03-12T15:18:46.820+01:00Thanks for this post - it's very useful and im...Thanks for this post - it's very useful and important to discuss social safety; actual safety, and to some degree perceived safety, are already talked about a lot. I know a few places in Edinburgh where it's really all about social safety, e.g. paths through derelict industrial areas or some housing estates. Nothing ever happens there so they are perfectly safe, but your mind's alarm Stephan Matthiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13548797388982977819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-31466332000960529812011-04-01T18:25:17.466+02:002011-04-01T18:25:17.466+02:00David,
Thanks so much for drawing such a concise ...David, <br />Thanks so much for drawing such a concise picture of what the real problems are with the cycling infrastructure here in the UK. Having been a cyclist for many years (and having been hit by a car on the street in London), I can attest to what is a legitimate "fear for safety". Discussing the issues on a blog page is great for sharing informatin and ideas in the format of Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04581843937551204256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-7122372427427660562011-01-11T14:39:59.750+01:002011-01-11T14:39:59.750+01:00So there does exist wanna-be "vehicular cycli...So there <i>does</i> exist wanna-be "vehicular cyclists" in NL ! :-)<br /><br />Stefan: sorry but I'm no big fan of <a href="http://baluw.nl/index.php?id=139#c881" rel="nofollow">the exemple on your website about Morocco</a>.<br />Maybe because I don't like risking my life just to be able to cross a street, among steel monsters...<br /><br />PS: road casualties amount to 4000 Colibrinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-8727510700846268542011-01-11T11:48:07.442+01:002011-01-11T11:48:07.442+01:00Stefan: It's not perfect here in the Netherlan...Stefan: It's <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/search/label/nl%20is%20not%20perfect" rel="nofollow">not perfect</a> here in the Netherlands, it's merely better than everywhere else. If you actually knew how it was to live and to cycle elsewhere you'd have a better appreciation of what you've got.<br /><br />Who is "working as a cycling consultant touring the world" ?David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-59504450690348350032011-01-11T11:31:57.547+01:002011-01-11T11:31:57.547+01:00@ BG (Or am I stuck on the bike path with the kids...@ BG (Or am I stuck on the bike path with the kids and grannies?):<br />In NL cities, all cycles including scooters and the wide children-movers must try to ride on the cycle paths, whilst avoiding cycles from opposite direction. Cycling on the car lane is difficult because cars must slow down to pass a bike; nobody does, i rarely do it (but want to). <br />Anyone saying that Amsterdam is the StefanLangeveld (Amsterdam , The Netherlands)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05643244809175610868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-46231554208185495332011-01-05T18:35:55.476+01:002011-01-05T18:35:55.476+01:00Charles, I'm going to cover Stevenage, Milton ...Charles, I'm going to cover Stevenage, <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/search/label/miltonkeynes" rel="nofollow">Milton Keynes</a> and similar places when I get a chance. An attempt was made in these places, but in my view it's not a good enough attempt. There are several ways in which it differs from what is normal in the Netherlands.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-22027655290370423392011-01-05T18:06:18.707+01:002011-01-05T18:06:18.707+01:00David, The main theme of your campaign to export t...David, The main theme of your campaign to export the Netherlands cycling experience to the UK is that the provision of cycling infrastructure will encourage greatly more trips to be made by bicycle. Yet this does not seem to be the case in the UK even when excellent cycling facilities are provided. Between the ages of 4 and 37 I lived in Stevenage, and was a keen cyclist throughout those years. Charles Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-82736035542742871632010-11-03T21:46:11.406+01:002010-11-03T21:46:11.406+01:00Jim: I have no desire to stop you wearing a helmet...Jim: I have no desire to stop you wearing a helmet if you like to do so. However, your statement that your are "absolutely sure I'd either be dead or have suffered serious brain damage" is simply illogical. Neither you, me, nor any doctor can say this with any certainty.<br /><br />There is only one way to know whether in your particular case a helmet really would have made such a David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-14326846991053400152010-11-03T20:31:19.938+01:002010-11-03T20:31:19.938+01:00Good post, as usual.
Regarding helmets - I used ...Good post, as usual. <br /><br />Regarding helmets - I used to be in agreement that helmets aren't necessarily safer, but are merely perceived as such. Until I had an incident where my helmet saved my life.<br /><br />It won't help much if you're hit by a motor vehicle travelling at speed. But it makes a huge difference in the much more common circumstance of a wipeout. <br /><br />I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-39167373273125428892010-07-09T12:31:05.983+02:002010-07-09T12:31:05.983+02:00Great and interesting article. I have to agree tha...Great and interesting article. I have to agree that most here don't cycle due to perceived risk. Unfortunately for Sydney, it's an actual risk also, since the cars here are a.holes, and we have very few paths, so must mix with angry cars.<br />I have to disagree with the statement about fluoro vests not improving safety. Here one of the main modes of accidents is being rear ended by a cartedsfileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02250179882833847310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-91531998384201053112009-08-13T06:35:09.347+02:002009-08-13T06:35:09.347+02:00BG: The question you ask virtually never arises be...BG: The question you ask virtually never arises because there is almost never a reason to want to ride on the roads instead of the cycle paths. The paths provide direct and fast routes for cyclists. The roads provide more traffic lights, traffic calming etc. The roads provide altogether a less convenient way of getting about.<br /><br />I commute, using either my two wheel recumbent or a <a href=David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-31694132847404480522009-08-13T05:12:33.034+02:002009-08-13T05:12:33.034+02:00This is an old post, I know, but I'm really in...This is an old post, I know, but I'm really interested in your perspective here. I agree with you almost all the way through -- indeed, perhaps all the way through, but there's one thing that has me curious. Toward the end you say that <i>"No-one suffers from cycling being pleasant. Steps to increase the subjective and social safety of cyclists lead to a better cycling experience BGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650718276049777977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-16684383216762695932009-02-21T10:06:00.000+01:002009-02-21T10:06:00.000+01:00Jayadeep, thanks for your message.I have no experi...Jayadeep, thanks for your message.<BR/><BR/>I have no experience of Indian conditions, and they're obviously somewhat different to the European experience that I have had.<BR/><BR/>There is a difference between subjective safety as a rule for all, and maximising your own feeling of safety by your own behaviour. For many years I did just as you do on the unfriendly roads of the UK, but this did David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-28519711773319709142009-02-21T09:28:00.000+01:002009-02-21T09:28:00.000+01:00David - thank you for this informative post. I am ...David - thank you for this informative post. I am a new commuter(2+2KM only) in Bangalore, India. The safety perspective is very different from the way things are in our country. My thoughts are at http://tinyurl.com/b24unm. Feel free to comment on this.Jayadeep(JDP)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13871541935050882722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-17719597152333645912009-02-16T20:16:00.000+01:002009-02-16T20:16:00.000+01:00Thanks Adam. Unfortunately, for all their "focus",...Thanks Adam. Unfortunately, for all their "focus", the UK's roads are not particularly safe for cyclists. What's more, it's worse now than it was 50 years ago.<BR/><BR/>NL on the other hand not only feels safe, but is actually also the safest place in the world for cycling per km travelled. The infrastructure here was redesigned in order to bring about this increase in safety, and it has worked.<David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-71411063352716761722009-02-16T20:03:00.000+01:002009-02-16T20:03:00.000+01:00Excellent post. I fully agree that cycle promoters...Excellent post. I fully agree that cycle promoters here in the UK pour far too much focus on purely statistical safety.<BR/><BR/>To throw another helmet into the fire of the safety debate: after many of going pretty much everywhere by bike (started at uni and never saw a good reason to stop) I finally picked up the eye-opening book <I>City Cycling</I> by Richard Ballatine. Among other issues, he Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-19203262805497395042009-01-09T16:56:00.000+01:002009-01-09T16:56:00.000+01:00This is really interesting. Subjective safety is s...This is really interesting. <BR/><BR/>Subjective safety is so important. I recently started cycling more at night around here (Boulder, CO, U.S.A.) but my subjective safety is only moderate - bike paths are not lit, one of the places I go regularly involves a neighborhood with no street lights at all, and there are few other people out cycling on the same routes. I feel the need for bright lightsSarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07574708176612065071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-5044627051813147252008-10-30T10:15:00.000+01:002008-10-30T10:15:00.000+01:00Excellent post, David. A clear summary of the way ...Excellent post, David. A clear summary of the way people (mis)understand "safety".<BR/><BR/>As someone living in two communities, one German and "cycling friendly", and one British and "cycling wannabe", I see day to day these misunderstandings about cycling safety. They are largely based on experience being limited to "the way it's done here".inconvenient_truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17888983434920764431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-70901619115708882012008-09-23T08:56:00.000+02:002008-09-23T08:56:00.000+02:00Dale,I fear you've slightly misunderstood what the...Dale,<BR/><BR/>I fear you've slightly misunderstood what the article is about. I'll summarise here: Where cycling has been made to feel safe, "normal" people will cycle in large numbers. They also no longer feel the need to take what then becomes an irrational step of dressing up in "safety" gear to do something that is "safe".<BR/><BR/>We have had many visitors who wear helmets when cycling in David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-45434560480953436312008-09-23T05:48:00.000+02:002008-09-23T05:48:00.000+02:00My city has a population of 400K, about 1300/km2, ...My city has a population of 400K, about 1300/km2, yet only 150km of separate bike paths.<BR/><BR/>Yes, having bike friendly road construction codes are needed to improve the subjective safety factor in the future. But living in the present, one must ride on roads and neighborhood streets to commute to work, stores, etc. With our poor biking infrastructure, route selection is key, coupled with dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715808669075015981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-80550154576872923572008-09-17T15:18:00.000+02:002008-09-17T15:18:00.000+02:00Thanks for this post - I find it the clearest anal...Thanks for this post - I find it the clearest analysis I've come across so far as to why cycling is 'normal' in other countries, while it remains marginal in the UK. British politicians and planning officials meanwhile delude themselves by referring to patches of white and green paint on the road as 'segregated' cycle lanes - they are nothing of the sort! And yet they quote the number of miles cocosolishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17040377173478647027noreply@blogger.com