tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post2685430241055341266..comments2024-03-27T12:53:39.298+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: Paying to use cars, not to own themDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-52860280696534324612009-11-22T22:45:59.628+01:002009-11-22T22:45:59.628+01:00Anon: The intention is to charge motorists more fo...Anon: The intention is to charge motorists more for use of crowded roads and for driving at rush hour than for use of quieter roads and at the weekend. This can't be done by looking merely at the distance a car has travelled during the year.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-69164425671392576342009-11-22T22:34:46.025+01:002009-11-22T22:34:46.025+01:00Wouldn't the same be easier to do by taking th...Wouldn't the same be easier to do by taking the year to year mileage during the yearly vehicle inspection? (of course I'm assuming yearly emissions inspections in NL)Anon of Floridanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-47733661087798214102009-11-21T20:10:45.685+01:002009-11-21T20:10:45.685+01:00The purpose of this plan is to tax driving accordi...The purpose of this plan is to tax driving according to road type, time and distance, in order to reduce the enormous tailbacks that are caused every day by the inadequacy of the road network. Apart from that, the type of car and fuel will be part of the calculation. Critics expect, however, that people will avoid the expensive motorways and will use secondary roads which will then also become Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-64000223308812010502009-11-21T14:17:57.660+01:002009-11-21T14:17:57.660+01:00Neil, it's not terribly different from the dat...Neil, it's not terribly different from the data that already results <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/oct/13/humanrights.mobilephones" rel="nofollow">from carrying a mobile phone around</a>.<br /><br />You can opt out. Don't drive and don't use a mobile phone (but to be sure with mobile phones you need to remove the battery. Yes, I know it sounds a bit "tinfoil hat"David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-23343909038233605022009-11-21T13:57:38.204+01:002009-11-21T13:57:38.204+01:00"it keeps all of the GPS logs on the device i..."it keeps all of the GPS logs on the device itself - the data will never leave the device" - That may allay the privacy concerns, of course if may not be believed, and there would still be fears the government/police would have access to the data on the device itself. But I agree that may be enough to sway enough of the public.<br /><br />I think GPS data of exactly where you have been,Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-82677830238374753852009-11-21T09:21:14.979+01:002009-11-21T09:21:14.979+01:00It's interesting how many concerns there are a...It's interesting how many concerns there are about privacy. In this case we're talking about something you can opt into and opt out of. Drive, or don't drive. There are plenty of alternatives to driving.<br /><br />If you really want to see invasion of privacy on a huge scale, <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/02/westminster-cctv-system-privacy" rel="nofollow">it's David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-15921639904884394012009-11-20T21:14:49.463+01:002009-11-20T21:14:49.463+01:00The more I read about *laws* coming through in NL,...The more I read about *laws* coming through in NL, the more I find I am glad to not live there any longer. There is no place in the world more bike friendly - I love that. But not this invasion of privacy. I understand wanting to reduce car usage and fuel consumption, pollution...but this goes too far.elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11931015377867378049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75771831222148292292009-11-20T16:29:38.468+01:002009-11-20T16:29:38.468+01:00Thank you for the interesting post and discussion....Thank you for the interesting post and discussion.<br /><br />Could someone help me to understand the privacy objection to this method of taxation a little better?<br /><br />I understand that the government would have records of all travel behavior undertaken by car. This initially sounds threatening, but it's not clear to me where the expectation of privacy comes from for the use of public Astropilothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11707930961635060915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-50821028224535672002009-11-18T21:10:56.250+01:002009-11-18T21:10:56.250+01:00I do cycle a lot, I do think that cycling must be ...I do cycle a lot, I do think that cycling must be promoted, and I do appreciate that people should be encouraged to use their cars only when there is really no other possibility. However I sincerely hope that the Dutch parliament or public will stop this massive attack on people's privacy before it sets a bad example for other countries. (Yes, I acknowledge that in principle it needn't Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-19029401483632029412009-11-18T16:57:55.698+01:002009-11-18T16:57:55.698+01:00I read about it in our newspaper. Sounds like a ve...I read about it in our newspaper. Sounds like a very interesting concept. Our car lobbies dislike the idea though (of course). I haven't thought it through myself, but it would certainly make sense to give it a go and see how it works. Keep us updated :).annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14989947994626570874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-12378375132937427122009-11-17T16:40:28.270+01:002009-11-17T16:40:28.270+01:00David H: Voting against it is not an option, parli...David H: Voting against it is not an option, parliament will have the last say. What I'm most concerned about is the horrible track record of Dutch government when it comes to big projects. Always needlessly complicated, always way over time and always at least twice as expensive as planned. Look at the Betuwelijn, the high speed train, the North/South metro in Amsterdam, the problems with Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-45287333251151957842009-11-17T16:37:51.958+01:002009-11-17T16:37:51.958+01:00David, the fuel tax will become useless in the nea...David, the fuel tax will become useless in the near future when electric cars become a reality. <br /><br />This would be a positive step for the environment, but you still need to pay for the roads. Governments will need to find a better way to raise funding for roads in the post fuel-tax era.Jameshttp://www.theurbancountry.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-74765639722828056162009-11-17T16:00:36.854+01:002009-11-17T16:00:36.854+01:00David: I agree that simple would be better. Howeve...David: I agree that simple would be better. However, the kilometerheffing is supposed to help to solve problems of congestion on roads by having rates which vary depending on where and when you drive. A fuel tax obviously couldn't do this.<br /><br />Also, a problem with just having a higher fuel tax here is that the Netherlands is not an island. People can drive to Germany or Belgium to fillDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-53352770080712534972009-11-17T15:48:34.575+01:002009-11-17T15:48:34.575+01:00Frits: I guess you'll be one of those voting a...Frits: I guess you'll be one of those voting against. Fair enough. This is a democracy, after all. From my point of view, I hope the Dutch public get behind this, but perhaps they will not.<br /><br />I remain hopeful about this scheme. Not because I think it will be magically trouble free, but because of the potential for a lot of benefits.<br /><br />Relative to Britain, the government hereDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-76170449039997319992009-11-17T15:36:28.944+01:002009-11-17T15:36:28.944+01:00When I heard this on the news yesterday I thought ...When I heard this on the news yesterday I thought 'good idea', but then on reflection, I think actually fuel tax is a better option: it is much easier to collect and doesn't have any privacy issues; it directly reflects the efficiency of the vehicle; and also the driver's driving for economy. It isn't quite so "in your face", in that it is absorbed in the price - butDavid Earlhttp://www.frankieandshadow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-57911766735594720062009-11-17T14:41:14.493+01:002009-11-17T14:41:14.493+01:00Neil, new technology is emerging whereby you can c...Neil, new technology is emerging whereby you can charge using GPS systems without invading privacy. Here in Toronto we have a startup company called "Skymeter Corp" who has build such a device.<br /><br />Conforming to privacy laws, it keeps all of the GPS logs on the device itself - the data will never leave the device. The device will then calculate the charge and will use cellular Jameshttp://www.theurbancountry.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-51207307823178726182009-11-17T13:05:34.746+01:002009-11-17T13:05:34.746+01:00Neil: Fuel duty and congestion charging were too s...Neil: Fuel duty and congestion charging were too simple obviously. This is the next concept in a row for over 20 years and like its predecessors it is doomed to fail. The cost is enormous, the system's complexity ditto, the government has a history of failing at this kind of projects, parliament hasn't had a chance to look the plans over, and car users are beginning to understand that Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-13525960130180874672009-11-17T12:04:48.005+01:002009-11-17T12:04:48.005+01:00While I like the idea of charging for car use, I a...While I like the idea of charging for car use, I am not a fan of this kind of charging - mostly because of the privacy issues. Any GPS based system has privacy issues (fears if not actual issues). I am surprised the Dutch would accept that sort of invasion of privacy.<br /><br />But it is good they are working to discourage car use. <br /><br />Any idea why not fuel duty and congestion Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.com