tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post8709520032774404836..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: Sixteen new long distance cycle routesDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-56928550999204312542010-12-08T18:30:23.580+01:002010-12-08T18:30:23.580+01:00@Colibri i agree in general. although still too ma...@Colibri i agree in general. although still too many people use cars too for short trips, but maybe not motorways.<br /><br />you are also right that the "train lobby" could do better. as the industry is failing (for now) to capture all the benefits of two gigantic investments, the Rotterdam-Germany freight line and the Amsterdam-Antwerpen high speed line, no surprise that some people Daniel Sparinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07770694012992195852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-33784442850360100682010-12-08T18:23:25.847+01:002010-12-08T18:23:25.847+01:00@christebull there is huge bike parking shortage i...@christebull there is huge bike parking shortage in the netherlands too - although that is a great problem to have :)<br /><br />i.e. there are thousands of people in every city who really want to cycle to the station to take the train - a wonderful, wonderful problem.Daniel Sparinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07770694012992195852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-44507570803570839192010-12-06T13:08:00.086+01:002010-12-06T13:08:00.086+01:00"But in the usual Dutch way it's being ta..."But in the usual Dutch way it's being talked about rather modestly, and has not been the subject of press releases sent all around the world... "<br /><br />Well it definately should. Do the Dutch not do PR? , as the Danes seem to understand it... Even with such a pathetic modal share, there is a chronic shortage of bicycle parking at many British railway stations.christhebullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18058394246399615754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-2698385219313850702010-12-05T19:19:03.556+01:002010-12-05T19:19:03.556+01:00I don't think the motorway and the bicycle imp...I don't think the motorway and the bicycle improvement programmes are in opposition per se in the NL.<br />Sure, they may compete for budget allocation but I suppose they're not seen as targeting the same issues.<br /><br />People seldom use the motorway for 10 km trips. Similarly, they don't go on their bike to travel 100 km.<br /><br />The question on which mode of transportation toColibrinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-61297125423525100302010-12-05T08:35:51.678+01:002010-12-05T08:35:51.678+01:00I drive tractor-trailer for a living (articulated-...I drive tractor-trailer for a living (articulated-lorry to you mates). I also ride long-distance on a bicycle for recreation, and I've taken long-distance car trips for vacation. For me, I have no problem with high speed limits for cars and trucks. It comes down to maintaining space in front of you and on the sides. <br /><br />As for sharing roads with bicycles, unfortunately, most of highwaymannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-1155284811843446532010-12-05T00:43:57.472+01:002010-12-05T00:43:57.472+01:00@Micheal Blue - Turn that first digit upside down ...@Micheal Blue - Turn that first digit upside down and it's about right. Of course that's for cars as we know them; high speed, multi-ton armored personnel carriers.<br /><br />Cut that figure in half and design cars to operate at maximum efficiency at that speed and they might achieve efficiencies that astound you.<br /><br />But who's going to buy a car that keeps getting passed by kfgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-86127649736971351702010-12-04T21:49:16.703+01:002010-12-04T21:49:16.703+01:00@Friets you are right, this would only be a small ...@Friets you are right, this would only be a small change. this does not make it a positive change, though, as it still generates more pollution and slightly promotes driving.Daniel Sparinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07770694012992195852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-1939720134087671972010-12-04T16:30:56.723+01:002010-12-04T16:30:56.723+01:00@Daniel - I think you should also consider that th...@Daniel - I think you should also consider that there will be no blanket speed limit raise from 120 to 130 km/h. It will only apply to certain roads at times when conditions allow for it, in other words when everybody already comfortably exceeds the limit. It's all very cosmetic, to keep drivers happy. It certainly will not solve congestion. Anecdote: my brother in law drove from Nieuwegein (Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-67852138545912773682010-12-04T09:57:39.954+01:002010-12-04T09:57:39.954+01:00Looking at a very simple model of traffic flow - t...Looking at a very simple model of traffic flow - that sounds a great deal more technical and impressive than it was. I estimate that purely on speeds and safe following distances that increasing vehicle speeds from 120 kh to 130 kh will increase the carrying capacity by ~1%. That's an extra 15.9 cars per hour @2s following interval an extra 10.6 cars per hour 10.6 @3s following interval.<br amoebahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783694650121687459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-35584269395189648532010-12-03T21:22:05.393+01:002010-12-03T21:22:05.393+01:00Raising the speed limit by 10 km/h in such a small...Raising the speed limit by 10 km/h in such a small country (= relatively short distances) doesn't save much time at all, but at that speed (130 km/h) cars can drink quite noticeably more petrol, and thus produce more polution. I believe cars are most efficient at around 90 km/h.Micheal Bluenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-16110328988952864722010-12-03T20:41:22.860+01:002010-12-03T20:41:22.860+01:00Daniel: I've been following the news items abo...Daniel: I've been following the news items about the 130 km/h thing with interest. It seems that it'll be difficult to get the speed limit raised as quickly as the petrol heads would like, and in many places. There are to me very interesting reasons why: the effect of extra noise and air pollution was mentioned quite a lot.<br /><br />That speed limits are frequently lower on motorways David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-83396762661590068532010-12-03T20:29:28.064+01:002010-12-03T20:29:28.064+01:00@David, i know, i was just referring to the opinio...@David, i know, i was just referring to the opinions quoted by Frits.<br /><br />@Inconvenient Truth "cycling infrastructure [...] is a much cheaper way of dealing with congestion than building more roads." - especially considering that building more roads actually generates more congestion.<br /><br />but to give you ideas of some small car-friendly developments here:<br />- speed Daniel Sparinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07770694012992195852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-64570901404810113212010-12-03T20:25:18.960+01:002010-12-03T20:25:18.960+01:00I am so incredibly envious of your bike paths/rout...I am so incredibly envious of your bike paths/routes. They make a great deal of sense. Over here in the U.S. the answer to congestion is always to add more highway lanes. <br />That never solves the problem.<br />Don't forget that not only do these paths solve problems for commuters, but they also provide recreation and exercise. I look forward to a future visit to your country so I can try trailsnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12684645113929507372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-28268638471824535492010-12-03T19:37:53.424+01:002010-12-03T19:37:53.424+01:00Well well, David. These figures for car ownership ...Well well, David. These figures for car ownership are indeed revealing. But it's not only the absolute ownership figures. The direction in which they are going is also important. Darlington, relative to the rest of the country, is a low-car-ownership town (poor and northern). But as car ownership continues to rise locally and nationally, it is highly aspirational for most social groups. So inconvenient_truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17888983434920764431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-21088558127769092172010-12-03T18:56:27.738+01:002010-12-03T18:56:27.738+01:00Daniel: You won't find me attacking people in ...Daniel: You won't find me attacking people in lycra. Indeed, I'm wearing some now... I just got home from my lightweight 30 km each way commute (I know there are plenty of people who ride further), in less than an hour, using <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/02/inter-city-bicycle-superhighways-for.html" rel="nofollow">one of those superhighways</a>, which had <a href="http://David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-54624279970075679642010-12-03T17:59:14.305+01:002010-12-03T17:59:14.305+01:00The interesting point for me about this is that th...The interesting point for me about this is that the Dutch government - or perhaps their technical advisers - understand the idea that motor traffic congestion can be reduced by making cycling infrastructure more attractive to use, and that this is a much cheaper way of dealing with congestion than building more roads.<br /><br />Having cycled through, and driven through, the Netherlands on a inconvenient_truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17888983434920764431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-91062921299707966712010-12-03T17:59:10.627+01:002010-12-03T17:59:10.627+01:00Ahhh, what does it take to move to Holland these d...Ahhh, what does it take to move to Holland these days?<br />Dave, maybe you could also make money by providing bike study group outings to places outside of your country; you could call them "Reality Check Study Groups".Micheal Bluenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-46955629339121090542010-12-03T16:56:06.609+01:002010-12-03T16:56:06.609+01:00Very nice. Our very own Mr Hammond has just annouc...Very nice. Our very own Mr Hammond has just annouced £600 million for infrastructure, much of which is for motorways. He claims that £1 spent brings £6 in benefits, so that trumps us cyclists!<br />I suspect that the benefits are to Shell and Esso rather than the NHS.<br /><br />Mark Garrett, Bristol UKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-38373903536207645112010-12-03T15:58:39.856+01:002010-12-03T15:58:39.856+01:00In this particular topic (long distance commuting)...In this particular topic (long distance commuting) i would be careful attacking the lycras - i know a few people here who sometimes commute 50+ km one way and they do use cycle gear and racing bikes etc - because frankly at this distance it makes a difference.<br /><br />These guys can still cycle in normal clothes for shorter distances, of course.Daniel Sparinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07770694012992195852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-79999328594484625692010-12-03T15:28:52.314+01:002010-12-03T15:28:52.314+01:00Frits: I think you're absolutely right. Many p...Frits: I think you're absolutely right. Many people take it completely for granted, not realising that what they have is actually quite exceptional.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-9696611295995992322010-12-03T13:58:29.154+01:002010-12-03T13:58:29.154+01:00David - What I meant to point out is that there wa...David - What I meant to point out is that there was a remarkably large number of people who thought this a bad idea. Now I do know that the nay-sayers are always more prone to expressing their views than the aye-sayers, but the Dutch are reputedly staunch bike users. They also apparently take their bicycle infrastructure so much for granted that they don't see it anymore. There was one Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75016781795039159452010-12-03T12:59:42.451+01:002010-12-03T12:59:42.451+01:00Frits: As the article points out, plenty of people...Frits: As the article points out, plenty of people actually do already use bicycles for such distances.<br /><br />I've noticed before that there is a remarkable degree to which Dutch commentators believe what more publicity conscious overseas cycle promoters say they've done. Adding to a national network of routes, <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/12/David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-45216385325523574942010-12-03T10:49:00.937+01:002010-12-03T10:49:00.937+01:00The comments on various news sites were rather int...The comments on various news sites were rather interesting. Most of those who took the trouble of writing in said the money should be spent elsewhere, meaning roads for cars, as nobody in his right mind would use a bicycle for such distances - remember that all of them have at least one bike at home for short trips. Others said these superhighways would attract even more of the lycra crowd, the Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-27833356144037580582010-12-03T10:26:05.806+01:002010-12-03T10:26:05.806+01:00In Britain cyclists are obliged to use 'A'...In Britain cyclists are obliged to use 'A' roads if they want to travel longer distances in the most direct way possible. Once you get outside towns and cities it's striking how few cyclists you see. On A roads like the A3, the A11 and the A12 you can drive the entire length and never see a single cyclist, which is hardly surprising as traffic volumes are very high and speeds are freewheelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16731932510033958017noreply@blogger.com