tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post8385073817716035773..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: A tank full of petrol ("gasoline," if you prefer), and what it meansDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-22008274135430488992018-10-01T10:16:30.380+02:002018-10-01T10:16:30.380+02:00Unknown: The data is a worthy addition. Thank you....Unknown: The data is a worthy addition. Thank you. However note this part of the summary from your link: "Using EVs, in EU, saves on average 50–60% of GHG emissions compared to internal combustion engines." i.e. an EV could perhaps half the GHG emissions per km driven.<br /><br />For now I'll ignore the problem of sudden growth in consumption which could force electricity generationDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-16718224857109869422018-09-29T15:40:14.479+02:002018-09-29T15:40:14.479+02:00You should update your article and use proper CO2 ...You should update your article and use proper CO2 emission data from electric grids. Its quite misleading what you write. <br />See for data for example here: https://ac.els-cdn.com/S1361920916307933/1-s2.0-S1361920916307933-main.pdf?_tid=bddcc5b8-2128-482b-88cd-fea13ebe7776&acdnat=1538228532_0266696f942b056768e5b1ee9063c624<br /><br />E.g. the emissions in the OECD countries are about 404 Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08608817751329778224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-15738800451891633002015-02-22T17:36:09.777+01:002015-02-22T17:36:09.777+01:00Simon, I agree. Note also that coal has precisely ...Simon, I agree. Note also that coal has precisely the same problems as you mention. David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-49564889146903061422015-02-22T14:07:28.394+01:002015-02-22T14:07:28.394+01:00So, the oil rig gets the oil up emission free, the...So, the oil rig gets the oil up emission free, the oil is transported emission free, the oil is refined to petrol emission free, the petrol is transported emission free ??<br /><br />Hmmm..<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511729164994590314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-48175272967174129132014-07-09T12:21:41.634+02:002014-07-09T12:21:41.634+02:00Most fuels we are talking fossil fuels that have t...Most fuels we are talking fossil fuels that have taken millions of year to form from the dead plants and animals under the pressure exerted deep inside the earth. So this blog is very useful to all to save our country thank you for posting.<br /> <a href="http://www.saveourcountry.in/" rel="nofollow"> Save fuel, Save Water, Save Electricity, Save Environment, Saving fuel, Fuel, Water, Electricitysundraparipoorananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09168164255260912631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-42918064473979630622010-12-13T12:43:32.814+01:002010-12-13T12:43:32.814+01:00dothebart, most people do not commute 30 km. In th...dothebart, most people do not commute 30 km. In the USA, 50% of the working population commutes five miles (8km) or less to work.<br />http://1world2wheels.org/get-involved/<br /><br />In Sweden, two thirds of the population lives within 10 km of work.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.ecoprofile.se/thread-1479-De-flesta-ror-sig-inom-tio-kilometer.html" rel="nofollow">De flesta rör sig inom tio Erik Sandblomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14411108063216855210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-71725365224864119232010-12-13T11:18:33.285+01:002010-12-13T11:18:33.285+01:00heh, yes. My daily commute is either 30 or 40 km w...heh, yes. My daily commute is either 30 or 40 km whether I shortcut one way with the tram or not. <br />On Mallorca its been between 80 and 150 km with different elevations.<br /><br />I just wanted to point out that it _does_ make a difference whether you go by bike or not how much hunger you get -> eat. <br /><br />I've got no problems with that, since I like eating ;-) <br /><br />I dothebarthttp://citadel.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-81330068435160461132010-12-13T07:44:22.701+01:002010-12-13T07:44:22.701+01:00A "holiday in Mallorca" is by definition...A "holiday in Mallorca" is by definition not a normal day. Probably these cyclists were doing more than they usually do, and in any case, people often eat more on holiday.<br /><br />It being nearly Christmas now, we can expect that in the next few weeks a lot of people will over-indulge without taking any exercise at all.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-47713621351653372692010-12-13T01:06:50.028+01:002010-12-13T01:06:50.028+01:00from my last cycling holiday in mallorca I can tru...from my last cycling holiday in mallorca I can truly tell you that cyclists _DO_ eat more. I'd say at least twice as much.dothebarthttp://citadel.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-15827359877161634852010-09-18T23:59:54.259+02:002010-09-18T23:59:54.259+02:00Tesla is playing little math games, specifically t...Tesla is playing little math games, specifically treating the human body as if it were a simple machine, with a simple energy in/energy out function, and perhaps even one that can be turned off like a car.<br /><br />And it ain't. It's a biological process that, like the coal furnace, operates 24/7 and LOAD BALANCES to maintain efficiency.<br /><br />Yes, it's true that when I'm kfgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-53297345281880389292010-09-12T06:04:44.840+02:002010-09-12T06:04:44.840+02:00I take from your discussion that all powered trans...I take from your discussion that all powered transport is resource inefficient. There is little point in any effort to make slightly more efficient vehicles. The goal should be to make less resource intensive sources of energy. Essentially, fossil fuels must be abandoned in favor of renewables. I highly recommend the film "Fuel." <br /><br />And I agree about the recent BP greenobikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-73813230951989822382010-09-07T10:47:44.792+02:002010-09-07T10:47:44.792+02:00Plenty of responses on this topic and I am not goi...Plenty of responses on this topic and I am not going to guess which is the right answer but I agree 53 euros is cheap for the amount of energy you buy. There are some good discussion papers available on the energy needed to produce food but few comparing the eating habits of cyclists and car drivers and bus or train passengers. I estimate my ride to work needs 800 calories so I expect to eat moreAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-3626961001438472672010-09-06T20:38:37.576+02:002010-09-06T20:38:37.576+02:00I think it is important that pedelecs are targeted...I think it is important that pedelecs are targeted at people/families who are in the market for a second or first private car, for those times when going long distance cannot be done easily with a bodylec* in combination with the train, or when there is no time and when any kind of car (even a shared one) is overkill.<br /><br />Cargo bikes with a box have a limited market outside of flat places.Slow Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12056080802746709323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-79067899632491328942010-09-06T20:13:07.836+02:002010-09-06T20:13:07.836+02:00@David:
Okay, so you might get a lower top speed, ...@David:<br />Okay, so you might get a lower top speed, but I think adding electric assist will also make the average speed higher.<br /><br />It might not be as efficient, but you talked about quicker, not efficient.Jon Bendtsennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-2233515912154283252010-09-06T16:24:55.058+02:002010-09-06T16:24:55.058+02:00I agree that electric cars still have all the car-...I agree that electric cars still have all the car-head and anti-community problems that petrol cars do. But surely it's better to have electric assist cycles (not electric mopeds) if that will persuade people to cycle who are otherwise put off by the distance or hills. <br /><br />I think your point (as always) is that good infrastructure is cheaper and better way to achieve most of this. andNeilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-6840629663584747662010-09-06T11:52:27.799+02:002010-09-06T11:52:27.799+02:00David: Thanks. About the 25km/h speed thing, I act...David: Thanks. About the 25km/h speed thing, I actually think most commuter or utility cycling is done at less than that speed, and up to that speed a (charged!) pedelec is easier to pedal. If you have a tailwind your bike will get boosted or directly (as opposed to with an intermediary like a windfarm!).<br /><br />I have lived in very hilly places such as Prague, San Francisco or Washington D.CSlow Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12056080802746709323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-72198502550455881592010-09-06T09:41:22.669+02:002010-09-06T09:41:22.669+02:00Brent: This is getting repetitive and I think it&#...Brent: This is getting repetitive and I think it's time for Occam's Razor.<br /><br />The promoters of electric (and non-electric) cars rely somewhat on a smoke-screen which makes it difficult to find reliable figures, and on the public's lack of understanding of these figures.<br /><br />It is not in the interest of Tesla to be a particularly good source for accurate information David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-53732402376759504162010-09-06T09:22:18.064+02:002010-09-06T09:22:18.064+02:00Jon: It's quite simple. Extra weight costs ene...Jon: It's quite simple. Extra weight costs energy to transport it. This especially applies every time you need to accelerate or climb a hill, but also on the flat. Electric assist adds weight. What's more, there is a mechanical coupling between the electric drive and the bicycle. When not in use this will still inevitably cause some drag. I've not measured it, but wheels with electricDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-63357075211226755242010-09-06T09:09:56.133+02:002010-09-06T09:09:56.133+02:00"Your figures are not believable."
For ..."Your figures are not believable."<br /><br />For the 9 kWh / 100 km at 30 kph figure, I'm relying on published numbers from Tesla. The figures may be unbelievable, but I haven't yet found any credible evidence to disprove them, despite some considerable efforts on a few blogs I read. <br /><br />Similarly, I used evnut.com to illustrate the Nissan number 7.5 kWh to refine a Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16391225482937602238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-1841167681665738332010-09-06T09:04:25.803+02:002010-09-06T09:04:25.803+02:00@David: Bikes without electric motors are quicker ...@David: <i>Bikes without electric motors are quicker than those with them (which are limited to 25 km/h).</i><br /><br><br />Please elaborate on why you think this statement holds true, because in my knowledge electric assist bikes only stops the engine at 25 km/t, you can still pedal faster.<br /><br />I met one yesterday which not only did that, but also, at 30 km/t started recharging the Jon Bendtsennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-67625359609222410232010-09-06T08:45:03.799+02:002010-09-06T08:45:03.799+02:00Green Idea Factory: One of the many problems with ...Green Idea Factory: One of the many problems with electric bikes is that above 25 km/h you're carting around a load of weight which does nothing useful at all, but does take energy from the rider. There are also transmission losses due to the motor coupling either to a wheel or the drive-chain. As a result, electric bikes are inevitably less efficient, which makes them slower with a shorter David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-61939918540507968912010-09-06T08:16:21.022+02:002010-09-06T08:16:21.022+02:00David: Under EU regulations, pedelecs (most electr...David: Under EU regulations, pedelecs (most electric-assist bikes) have assistance only to 25km/h, but can still go faster unassisted. It would follow that the same cyclist could go farther and/or faster on a pedelec than a normal like. Of course aerodynamic enhancements such as the ones you champion can help, too!<br /><br />Also reducing this argument to CO2 plays right into the hands of those Slow Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12056080802746709323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-50627426762124795452010-09-06T07:40:08.758+02:002010-09-06T07:40:08.758+02:00Brent: Your figures are not believable. My ride of...Brent: Your figures are not believable. My ride of 235 km, so fast as possible, consumed an extra 3700 calories, which is approximately equal to 4kWh. This is much less than Tesla like to claim for power consumption of a human.<br /><br />But it's not only Tesla themselves, Evnut also appears to be less than an impartial source of information. While they're concerned about the additional David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-91045078935908851882010-09-06T03:44:34.677+02:002010-09-06T03:44:34.677+02:00"From these claims, unless an electric car is..."From these claims, unless an electric car is twelve times more efficient than a petrol car (I think not), it's better to cycle."<br /><br />I'm not sure this claim controls for speed. If I have my math right here, the Roadster traveling around 20 mph (30 kph) would use about 9 kWh per 100 km*, while a 90 kg cyclist would use roughly 10 kWh per 100km.<br /><br />*http://Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16391225482937602238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-84570874536338757792010-09-06T00:11:35.277+02:002010-09-06T00:11:35.277+02:00Hi David,
Great number crunching - I enjoy these ...Hi David,<br /><br />Great number crunching - I enjoy these posts, thank you. It is hard to know where to stop when comparing the energy consumption of a human but ultimately all of this comes down to two things: there are too many of us and, we (in the 'first' world) consume too much.<br /><br />I have an e-assist bicycle (a dutch model) with a 252Wh Li-ion battery and 250W motor. With Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com