tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post4993947958651173878..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: Inter-city bicycle superhighways for long distance commutersDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-37960958807744747942010-02-11T09:25:05.668+01:002010-02-11T09:25:05.668+01:00David:
I second Mark Garret's plea for a knoop...David:<br />I second Mark Garret's plea for a knooppunt-arcticle. It's primarily for recreational riding so it's a different issue than the superhighway topic.<br />I've used the system and it's great. Works very well almost everywhere.<br /><br />On the super highways: Keep reporting on this development -- we need best practices to inform people elsewhere. In the north of Josef Janningnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75373674580929542932010-02-10T22:40:45.323+01:002010-02-10T22:40:45.323+01:00J..: There are many ways to calculate these things...J..: There are many ways to calculate these things, and no two places ever do so in precisely the same way, nor do they every have precisely the same things to measure. It is extremely difficult to compare.<br /><br />However, until a few years back everyone was quite happily quoting their figures for cycling as a percentage of all journeys. However, Copenhagen changed from this to quoting their David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-35944540302263028912010-02-10T21:45:59.553+01:002010-02-10T21:45:59.553+01:00David,
I guess there's more than two mode sha...David,<br /><br />I guess there's more than two mode share figures around. The numbers I found in some Fietsberaad documents were more positive for Copenhagen than the numbers you used in your criticism of the Danes. I've no idea what's what.<br /><br />I also found a list of Dutch cities with mode share numbers. The mode share for Groningen and Amsterdam was somewhat lower than the J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-56466459789769442012010-02-10T19:07:33.245+01:002010-02-10T19:07:33.245+01:00J..: About the Danes ´bluffing´: There are basical...J..: About the Danes ´bluffing´: There are basically two sets of figures. The ones that the officials from the country use use and those that Copenhagenize uses. I believe the former.<br /><br />And ´are you aware of how lucky you are to live in Assen´: Of course. It is a great place to live. We moved here for a reason.<br /><br />Mark: Actually, the knooppuntennetwerk was originally a Belgian David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-4829876981770841102010-02-10T16:58:10.553+01:002010-02-10T16:58:10.553+01:00The trouble with the cycle route near the football...The trouble with the cycle route near the football stadium in The Hague is known, and ridiculous. Building works cause a small landslide under the motor way, and while that was repaired by dumping a lot of sand in the cyclists' tunnel, the contractor and municipality battled it out who should foot the bill.<br /><br />This blocked the cycle route. A lot has been learned from this failure. TheMaartenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02858996719781447490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-56809270057190475782010-02-10T15:10:16.284+01:002010-02-10T15:10:16.284+01:00Hello David
Can I make a request for an article a...Hello David<br /><br />Can I make a request for an article about the knooppunt system. I did make a brief search but it didn't show up as having been covered already. It seems to me to be a very Dutch system.<br /><br />Mark Garrett, Bristol UKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-23872337781050430112010-02-10T12:52:19.056+01:002010-02-10T12:52:19.056+01:00David,
The "extremely deadly" comment wa...David,<br />The "extremely deadly" comment was related to my argument about continuity, not the state of the Pijnacker-De Lier route. A fietsnelweg will work only if it is of a continuously high quality.<br /><br />And you might be right about the Danes. I've seen a lot of variance in the numbers about mode share, but it's possible they're bluffing as well. <br /><br />I'J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-50489947484430468042010-02-10T06:49:57.372+01:002010-02-10T06:49:57.372+01:00J.. I do agree with you that a fietssnelweg should...J.. I do agree with you that a fietssnelweg should be extremely good. And yes, do complain if things are not up to the standard that you expect. However, do you realize how lucky you are ? Do you realize how much you are exaggerating. I have yet to find any place in this country for cyclists which could truly be called "extremely deadly, rediculously dangerous" by comparison with David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-19033955968917460882010-02-09T23:31:54.317+01:002010-02-09T23:31:54.317+01:00David,
I would have to disagree with you. I didn&...David,<br /><br />I would have to disagree with you. I didn't just cherrypick. A "fietssnelweg" should be mostly great with maybe some mediocre parts. I understand the difficulty in trying to fit a big bikepath into existing urban infrastructure, but they managed it for the car (which needs a lot more space). The intended goal (commuting) requires continuity. Would you send your J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-85363921505808031562010-02-09T18:41:00.994+01:002010-02-09T18:41:00.994+01:00Neil,
Please note that making a left turn means r...Neil,<br /><br />Please note that making a left turn means riding more or less in a straight line while the road curves to the right. As the cycle lane ends (right side) you look over your shoulder to see if there's a gap between cars and you steer your bike in there, preferably with two or three cyclists at a time. Make shure you occupy the full width of the car lane and move along with J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-6085694729973970712010-02-09T10:50:20.067+01:002010-02-09T10:50:20.067+01:00Neil: It was a rhetorical question... But it's...Neil: It was a rhetorical question... But it's hardly the essence of efficiency, is it ? Nor safety. The merging of straight on cyclists with right turning drivers is quite astonishingly bad.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-8742755330838755982010-02-09T10:41:16.731+01:002010-02-09T10:41:16.731+01:00"How exactly do you make a left turn?" -..."How exactly do you make a left turn?" - as explained in the text alongside the video.<br /><br />"A cyclist planning to turn left will cross the intersection, staying to the right, then turn and line up with the traffic on the crossing street, "Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-46680951939765808092010-02-09T09:49:24.369+01:002010-02-09T09:49:24.369+01:00J.. I understand entirely why you complain. What y...J.. I understand entirely why you complain. What you show is less good than should be expected in the Netherlands and certainly not up to the standard for a fietssnelweg.<br /><br />However, you're being selective and showing the worst parts of a route many km in length. Do have you any idea how good your examples of bad things look through the eyes of people elsewhere ? There are few places David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-86209044580605859312010-02-09T00:54:15.970+01:002010-02-09T00:54:15.970+01:00Myself and many other people in Quebec used (and a...Myself and many other people in Quebec used (and are using) La Route Verte for commuting every day.<br /><br />Outside of Quebec, in the English-language media, Route Verte gets a large share of tourism adverts.And that's OK; there are far worse things to do for recreation. <br /><br />But for the people of Quebec, it is a commuter and transportation facility that provides a fast, direct Kevin Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13186428862833389619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-44332033348742847392010-02-08T23:00:03.143+01:002010-02-08T23:00:03.143+01:00Well, not all real ones are really real either. If...Well, not all real ones are really real either. If I may direct your attention to the blue line just below The Hague. That's the route between De Lier and Pijnacker, traversing Delft. It's indicated as an existing route. Let me take you on a little tour:<br /><br />They put in a new bicycle path on the north side of the "Woudse weg", between De Lier and Den Hoorn. It's very J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-92136817212095941482010-02-08T21:30:31.324+01:002010-02-08T21:30:31.324+01:00The routes are not all unrealistic. I'm quite ...The routes are not all unrealistic. I'm quite certain that the Amsterdam to Almere route is suggested as a long bridge. This is a dream, and will likely remain so.<br /><br />That doesn't mean that the Amsterdam-Almere route will not improve. A new cycling bridge over the Amsterdam Rijn Kanaal has recently been opened, and there are more partial improvements. Bu the one the mean here is Maartenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02858996719781447490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-48980773696033491132010-02-08T17:57:17.015+01:002010-02-08T17:57:17.015+01:00They are not all unreal. The D to O (Den Bosch to ...They are not all unreal. The D to O (Den Bosch to Oss) green line in the lower center is very real. Both cities are quite far in the planning proces.Mark W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07882028603632115187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-84327443720271874422010-02-08T14:30:54.852+01:002010-02-08T14:30:54.852+01:00Kevin, The Netherlands also has a 4500 km network ...Kevin, The Netherlands also has a 4500 km network of recreational cycleroutes called the <a href="http://www.fietsplatform.nl/routes/" rel="nofollow">Landelijke Fietsroutes</a>. That network is perhaps analogous to "La Route Verte". However, this post is not about recreational routes.<br /><br />The fietssnelwegen are for long distance commuters. They don't take such scenic routes David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-49305144588231488692010-02-08T14:20:08.557+01:002010-02-08T14:20:08.557+01:00Quebec has got its "Route Verte" bicycle...Quebec has got its "Route Verte" bicycle network; 4,000 km in place across the province.<br /><br />I've used it, and it is very good, but parts of it are not up to Dutch standards.<br /><br />http://www.routeverte.com/rv/index_e.phpKevin Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13186428862833389619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-69610050336073221892010-02-08T12:08:43.069+01:002010-02-08T12:08:43.069+01:00I agree with Ben. Most people are not going to tak...I agree with Ben. Most people are not going to take up 'vehicular cycling' in countries like the USA, Britain or Australia because the transport infrastructure favours car travel and regards cycling as an inferior way of getting around. Telling people to wear helmets and dress up in yellow jerkins is no way to get them cycling, nor is telling them that cycling is statistically safe. freewheelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16731932510033958017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-51877985097641692992010-02-08T08:07:06.072+01:002010-02-08T08:07:06.072+01:00Looks like there will be a similar road between Zu...Looks like there will be a similar road between Zuidhorn (near where I live) and Groningen (the Z and G in the top of the map). This is good news, I think. The path is now wide enough for 2 bicyles next to each other. But if I want to overtake (especialy with a velomobile) this is not possible. I've read something in plans that they would be widening the cyclepath (as part of the 'Wilfred Ketelaarhttp://xl-network.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-12648994963820612902010-02-08T07:41:52.543+01:002010-02-08T07:41:52.543+01:00Hi Maarten, are you sure that the route between Al...Hi Maarten, are you sure that the route between Almere and Amsterdam is ever supposed to be as straight as that ? Building such a bridge really would be an achievement - it's 10 km over the water there (so "luchtfietsen" or "air cycling" in more ways than one). All the lines shown on that map are straight. That's simply how they're drawn. My route from Assen to David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-25100419169872269852010-02-08T02:38:27.011+01:002010-02-08T02:38:27.011+01:00David Hembrow, Just wanted to say that your blog ...David Hembrow, Just wanted to say that your blog inspires me to keep riding and how to explain bicycle safety to other people. Over here in the states, there are a lot of John Forrester followers. While John Forrester makes good points on how to ride safely, he doesn't give any points on how to build better cycling infrastructure (he seems adamently against it). Your points on subjective benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06734098326474885040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-9457658305444678302010-02-08T00:12:44.757+01:002010-02-08T00:12:44.757+01:00Hi David,
Please take that map with the appropria...Hi David,<br /><br />Please take that map with the appropriate number of grains of salt. The direct connection between Almere and Amsterdam (over the water) is drawn here as 'kansrijk', but I'd say that it falls in the category of 'luchtfietsen' (dreaming, but please ask your colleagues at the ligfietsgarage about the finesses of the word). I don't think that that Maartenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02858996719781447490noreply@blogger.com