tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post3964246766861405647..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: Reality vs. Myth: The "dangers" of Dutch cycle pathsDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-59269812846818892462010-12-13T07:54:20.138+01:002010-12-13T07:54:20.138+01:00John: It's a red herring. The infrastructure w...John: It's a red herring. The infrastructure works whatever the level of traffic.<br /><br />I'm afraid no-one's going to go back and shoot otherwise identical videos for you with different traffic conditions, but it's a reasonable request to ask to see roads at busier times. If you look around on the blog you'll find others shot at busier times, including several shot at (andDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-89578954389642416412010-12-13T04:43:04.011+01:002010-12-13T04:43:04.011+01:00The video at the head of this post was shot at a t...The video at the head of this post was shot at a time when traffic of all kinds -- motorized, bicycle, pedestrian -- was extremely light. For that reason, I don't think that it has much to demonstrate about typical safety concerns, or about delays resulting from congestion. Can we have a video shot under more usual conditions?John S. Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08731232655773487676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-89861284943608892832010-12-12T20:37:47.311+01:002010-12-12T20:37:47.311+01:00Hi Todd, thank-you for an excellent comment.
I ag...Hi Todd, thank-you for an excellent comment.<br /><br />I agree completely. When I first visited I was also taken by the lack of challenge faced by cyclists here. I used to enjoy my daily dose of adrenalin when fighting for a little space on the roads in the UK.<br /><br />However, I then had children, and I didn't enjoy other people driving at my children because they were cycling on the David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-48910303652308611672010-12-12T19:29:06.821+01:002010-12-12T19:29:06.821+01:00Watching that video reminds me of my many visits t...Watching that video reminds me of my many visits to the Netherlands and my experience biking there (shocking, I know). This is clearly the way to do what has been done there: make biking near universal and safe... and... extremely boring. Yes, there I said it. <br /><br />I acknowledge the perversity of my own feelings, but they've been a long time in the making: I like feeling the rugged toddhttp://clevercycles.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-14774618478002586742010-12-09T01:54:41.694+01:002010-12-09T01:54:41.694+01:00there are all kindsof vehicular cyclist nazis in t...there are all kindsof vehicular cyclist nazis in the US and california in particular with dense skulls who just dont get it.Blinginheimhttp://www.blinginheim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-19538595355670555522010-12-08T10:06:06.573+01:002010-12-08T10:06:06.573+01:00Bob: Thank you for your contribution, but your per...Bob: Thank you for your contribution, but your perspective seems a little odd.<br /><br />Cycling is "normal" when everyone cycles and it's not considered to be a dangerous activity. Here, cycling is not restricted to a self-selecting few, but a means of transport used by very nearly everyone for at least some of their journeys. No-one bad-mouths "cyclists" in general David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-83181082408243139702010-12-07T23:43:40.033+01:002010-12-07T23:43:40.033+01:00@neil: Suppose that instead of separating bicyclis...@neil: Suppose that instead of separating bicyclists, cities like Copenhagen had allowed cyclists to continue to dominate the streets. Would there still be "so many cars around"?<br /><br />And if bicyclists were still dominating the streets, why should they care how many cars are around, anyway? Slower traffic would keep right and faster traffic would pass on the right. What's Bob Shanteauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13604142072085221285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-32987623663709171352010-12-07T11:54:24.243+01:002010-12-07T11:54:24.243+01:00@Bob, not sure I understand what your point is. Ho...@Bob, not sure I understand what your point is. How does that relate to today's problems with so many cars around? i.e. you would only get the same situation by banning cars or taking the steps the Dutch do give cars very little reason to use that street (e.g. no through route).<br /><br />If you are simply objecting to separate infrastructure then I don't see how the 1937 example is Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-89582967422752080982010-12-07T06:44:40.863+01:002010-12-07T06:44:40.863+01:00I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe your ...I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe your statement that bicyclists need separate infrastructure in order to feel "normalized".<br /><br />Are you familiar with the TravelTalk film of Copenhagen in 1937? It shows streets dominated by cyclists without a cycle path in sight. Wouldn't those bicyclists consider themselves "normalized"?<br /><br />What do you think Bob Shanteauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13604142072085221285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-81372817950185715742010-11-28T12:23:31.278+01:002010-11-28T12:23:31.278+01:00@Jon - That's why I wrote "are sometimes ...@Jon - That's why I wrote "are sometimes necessary". In this particular case, the bollard is obviously not necessary so it's one of those instances where "rules" dictated the wrong solution.Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-47007015324600473392010-11-28T11:29:54.716+01:002010-11-28T11:29:54.716+01:00@Frits B.
But it makes no sense to block cars ther...@Frits B.<br />But it makes no sense to block cars there, just 2 meters to the left of the bollard there is a road for cars. They even have a marked left turn lane if one looks at the video leading up to this bollard.<br /><br />@Shiroi と Kiroi<br />In Denmark we do have cyclepaths and lots of people cycle. But there are still some that will run redlights. Their interest is purely in getting Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-41698497067363235362010-11-28T05:26:36.304+01:002010-11-28T05:26:36.304+01:00@velolondres
the last comment about bikes passing ...@velolondres<br />the last comment about bikes passing cars and not wanting to be stuck at lights with other cyclists waiting for cars is very telling.I have recently taken up cycling for transport in sydney ,australia.There is a push on to build separated cycleways .Bicycles though are still secondary to cars when it comes to traffic lights,intersections etc.But it is a case of getting it out Shiroi と Kiroihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12887408256486689964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-29556051392415380602010-11-28T01:47:16.403+01:002010-11-28T01:47:16.403+01:00Nice post David.
This debate about cycle paths is ...Nice post David.<br />This debate about cycle paths is quite a frustrating one. We all want a safer environment to ride in but the problems cycle advocates in many countries face is a combination of un sympathetic government and a divisiions within our own ranks due to the fact that we have to fight tooth and nail for the simplest of improvements and often find ourselves compromising at every David Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06041580123414270092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-31688504335853341872010-11-27T15:59:34.421+01:002010-11-27T15:59:34.421+01:00@Jon - Bollards are necessary sometimes to keep in...@Jon - Bollards are necessary sometimes to keep intruders away. Like David, I live in Assen, in a 1920s neighbourhood with narrow streets that are all 30 km/h and mostly one-way nowadays. There is a direct cycle path from my front door to the town centre: 3 minutes by bike, 7 minutes to walk. A car needs 10 minutes of criss-crossing (and then some more to find a parking space). The cycle path is Frits Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399632570565541892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-89229490718153208252010-11-27T13:22:28.698+01:002010-11-27T13:22:28.698+01:00@David:
I know it is not perfect, I still wonder w...@David:<br />I know it is not perfect, I still wonder why they put a board there in the first place? What where they thinking?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-49273332838533626272010-11-27T01:01:49.258+01:002010-11-27T01:01:49.258+01:00Don't think anyone objects to well designed bi...Don't think anyone objects to well designed bike lanes . Problem for us in UK is that what provision we have is often badly designed and in some cases actually dangerous. We also have a very strong motoring lobby who want cyclists off the road so they dont get in way of cars. Consequently lot ofbus want to see a proper network of segregated paths but don't want to be forced to usbitbif velolondreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186333323667352382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-54674410589337282182010-11-26T22:04:18.490+01:002010-11-26T22:04:18.490+01:00" A good cyclepath does not need to be enforc..." A good cyclepath does not need to be enforced."<br /><br />does that include roads too?? yards?? driveways??? handicapped ramps???r s thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04605854547657694111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-66506918606747184722010-11-26T21:59:16.209+01:002010-11-26T21:59:16.209+01:00While I concur with the political side of your the...While I concur with the political side of your thesis that there is no place with high cycling share, I don't think it is actually true. Cities like Freiburg have had the cyclist long before they started to pick up on it and improve facilities and infrastructure. If there are many cyclists on the road it actually tames traffic and consequentially encourages more poeple to cycle. In the end hagennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-57503552708337737002010-11-26T21:56:18.829+01:002010-11-26T21:56:18.829+01:00well...race car driving isnt allowed on streets. ...well...race car driving isnt allowed on streets. so the race car crowd has to slow down a bit on the streets. i expect there are many times during the day that fast cyclists can open it up on the bike lanes and many paths are probably rather lightly traveled.r s thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04605854547657694111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-33226634005015074942010-11-26T21:52:48.473+01:002010-11-26T21:52:48.473+01:00the objections to cycle paths brought up in the vi...the objections to cycle paths brought up in the video are probably fake.<br /><br />they paths seem to work quite well.r s thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04605854547657694111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-73278953854912156282010-11-26T21:50:22.427+01:002010-11-26T21:50:22.427+01:00""Vehicular Cycling" is a survival ...""Vehicular Cycling" is a survival technique where cyclists are a small minority without proper infrastructure. It's widely practised in the UK and USA."<br /><br />I suppose it depends on how you define VC. I'd say that many UK cyclist don't practice VC because they do things like ride on footpaths or too close to the gutter. There is a case to be made that Taliesinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04399506198451047847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-48909793740559117482010-11-26T19:33:24.904+01:002010-11-26T19:33:24.904+01:00Jon: The Netherlands is not perfect. There are som...Jon: The Netherlands <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/search/label/nl%20is%20not%20perfect" rel="nofollow">is not perfect</a>. There are some errors, and that looks like one of them. However, I don't think that bollard would cause a huge problem in practice. It looks to me as if the kerb has been ridden over on many occasions...David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-83306606110371252702010-11-26T19:21:36.587+01:002010-11-26T19:21:36.587+01:00t=10m0s what is that bollard doing right there in ...t=10m0s what is that bollard doing right there in the cyclepath? How am I supposed to get by with my velomobile, bakfiets or childtrailer?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-67882490556167293292010-11-26T12:47:31.021+01:002010-11-26T12:47:31.021+01:00David: "They're properly designed and the...David: "They're properly designed and they go everywhere. But, cycle paths is "all" they are."<br /><br />The terminology is a problem!<br /><br />What I meant was that your cycle "paths" are DESIGNED just like ROADS are: careful thought is given to junction design, traffic lights work for cyclists as well as cars, routes are continuous and have priority over Fonanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02138087859465124942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-31266689476946407852010-11-26T12:22:08.642+01:002010-11-26T12:22:08.642+01:00Ladia: 500 year old cities were not built to accom...Ladia: 500 year old cities were not built to accommodate cars either.<br /><br />The city I live in, Assen, <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/01/assen-is-750-years-old.html" rel="nofollow">is 750 years old</a> but provides excellent infrastructure for cycling.<br /><br />Dutch cities have just the same challenges regarding space as cities in any other country.<br /><br /><a href="http://David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.com