tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post2773053799075672990..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: A look back on British policy. The National Cycling Strategy 1996David Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-78513740726159740872012-07-10T11:14:03.650+02:002012-07-10T11:14:03.650+02:00AndrewRH: Bike share is a phenomena from countries...AndrewRH: Bike share is a phenomena from countries with low cycling modal shares.<br /><br />There is <a href="http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2009/12/little-known-about-effect-of-bike-share.html" rel="nofollow">no proven success with any of the systems</a> and it can never have a capacity which is enough to make a real difference.<br /><br />London, just like all the other places that have David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-27264744246612598402012-07-10T10:51:56.054+02:002012-07-10T10:51:56.054+02:00Well, there is one positive - the world, including...Well, there is one positive - the world, including London, are taking up free cycle hire. That will add more voices who demand better infrastructure.<br /><br />Just saw these tweets from meeting between @allpartycycling and Transport for London: Mar 2012 - 818,209 hires, a record month Total hires - 13.33 million<br />% of all cycling trips is 6%, 17% of users have increased cycling, There are AndrewRHhttp://reeves-hall.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-21256122495219180922010-05-09T10:04:34.973+02:002010-05-09T10:04:34.973+02:00Ian: I lived for most of my life in the UK and kno...Ian: I lived for most of my life in the UK and know exactly what it's like.<br /><br />There is a difference between British people and Dutch people. The British make excuses, while the Dutch find solutions.<br /><br />There is no physical reason why British cities can't accommodate cyclists as well as Dutch cities can. It is only the lack of will which prevents it from happening.<br /><David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-45647918827577916052010-05-07T20:22:23.746+02:002010-05-07T20:22:23.746+02:00Hi David,
I've had a look at your other links...Hi David,<br /><br />I've had a look at your other links and still maintain that space over here is an issue - most built up areas I'm aware of would fall into the 'simply good use made of the available space' catagory, and that would only be on the roads with as much space as Groningerstraat; looking at Groningerstraat, the engineers there have done a great job, but over here forIsla...https://www.blogger.com/profile/09569097700652272494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-21806873967776305022010-05-06T23:42:16.591+02:002010-05-06T23:42:16.591+02:00@Neil:
On road width: I think you're approachi...@Neil:<br />On road width: I think you're approaching the problem the wrong way. You are thinking in terms of: <i>"I need such and such lanes and width and that's too little."</i> while you should be approaching the problem thinking: <i>"I have x feet of road width, now how can I best allocate that space?"</i>.<br /><br />The only problem with that second approach is J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-44378056169173825172010-05-06T23:26:20.861+02:002010-05-06T23:26:20.861+02:00@Neil: You said: "but in UK we get cycle lane...@Neil: You said: "but in UK we get cycle lanes that just look like good bits of pavement."<br /><br />Correct! And <i>why</i> do you get these sub-standard cycle lanes? Because nobody's demanding proper ones. This is exactly what David is arguing in this post. You are getting crap facilities because that's what your cycling advocates are asking for. They commit themselves to J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-27092243994166763352010-05-06T19:34:45.687+02:002010-05-06T19:34:45.687+02:00Neil: We started running Study Tours four years ag...Neil: We started running <a href="http://hembrow.eu/cycling/studytour.html" rel="nofollow">Study Tours</a> four years ago precisely to demonstrate all of this. Suffice to say that the Netherlands has town centres as ancient as those in the UK (Assen, for instance, <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/01/assen-is-750-years-old.html" rel="nofollow">is 750 years old</a> and was not built with David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-62919843648180290002010-05-06T17:23:09.455+02:002010-05-06T17:23:09.455+02:00I would love to understand what the Dutch design p...I would love to understand what the Dutch design patterns are for various road widths, as like Ian I don't see very many roads that can accommodate what you show us. <br /><br />e.g. what happens if the minimum widths for motor lanes, cycle lanes, pavements + borders add up to more than the width of the whole highway. (which would be all but the dual carriageways round here as far as I can Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-47727750971110749602010-05-06T17:14:04.880+02:002010-05-06T17:14:04.880+02:00@J - that might make it more obvious, but in UK we...@J - that might make it more obvious, but in UK we get cycle lanes that just look like good bits of pavement. Mostly because they are pavement that has just been re-designated shared use or cycle path, or with a line painted down the middle.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-84966697110411327322010-05-06T00:02:53.913+02:002010-05-06T00:02:53.913+02:00I don't see how pedestrians are going to be a ...I don't see how pedestrians are going to be a problem. If you have an adequate (preferably slightly elevated) footpath ajacent to the cycle path, pedestrians will typically not stray onto your precious roadspace, much unlike cars, who often view a cycle lane as a parking space and cyclist as irritating obstacles. The only places where the problem may occur is on crowded highstreets, where J..noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-43939265171276145562010-05-05T22:53:55.017+02:002010-05-05T22:53:55.017+02:00Ian: The Netherlands is one of the densest populat...Ian: The Netherlands is one of the densest populated countries in the world.<br /><br />Many examples are not in greater spaces than in the UK. One example is <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/11/costings-of-improvements-for-cyclists.html" rel="nofollow">this one which is the same width as a road in Cambridge</a>. There is simply good use made of the available space.<br /><br />Oh, and David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-80219033891935704072010-05-05T21:51:46.886+02:002010-05-05T21:51:46.886+02:00Neil,
See rules 2, 12 & 13 here:
http://www....Neil,<br /><br />See rules 2, 12 & 13 here:<br /><br />http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070108<br /><br />You are quite right of course, pedestrians always have right of way, but then you don't see many walking purposely in the middle of the road instead of on the pavement do you? <br /><br />How can a segregated cycle path full of pedestrians be an Isla...https://www.blogger.com/profile/09569097700652272494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-30205537880731760122010-05-05T21:39:32.020+02:002010-05-05T21:39:32.020+02:00Hi David,
I had a look at your examples of juncti...Hi David,<br /><br />I had a look at your examples of junction designs & two things struck me straightaway:-<br /><br />* All relied on greater space than exists around the majority of roads where I live, and in most of the built up areas I've visited also, making the possibility of doing the same unachievable without knocking down buildings or taking space away from motor traffic;<br /><Isla...https://www.blogger.com/profile/09569097700652272494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-71529278839142194592010-05-04T22:30:24.944+02:002010-05-04T22:30:24.944+02:00"Unlock resources to meet the objectives of t..."Unlock resources to meet the objectives of the strategy"<br /><br />I think this means - <br /><br />there is no money allocated to these plans and we have yet to figure out how this can be done with no money <br /><br />This pretty much sums up UK cycling infrastructure - no money, no ambition and consequently no improvement in cycling ratessheffield cycle chichttp://sheffieldcyclechic.tumblr.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-5772678521830429012010-05-04T19:04:39.664+02:002010-05-04T19:04:39.664+02:001996 always sounds recent to me, but as 14 years h...1996 always sounds recent to me, but as 14 years have passed by I have to admit it is a long time. Does the increase in car use mean that holding on to a 2% journey share is actually good and it may have been much worse? <br />The UK government is considering a high speed rail link between London and Birmingham at a cost of £17,000,000,000. That sort of money would buy a lot of zero carbon publicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-50436420828069350752010-05-04T14:32:37.657+02:002010-05-04T14:32:37.657+02:00"And then there are pedestrians." - who ..."And then there are pedestrians." - who are not doing anything wrong by being on the part that cyclists are allowed on.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443493823465136241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-78104137209525583552010-05-03T23:57:41.949+02:002010-05-03T23:57:41.949+02:00Ian: Yes, to some extent motoring needs to be made...Ian: Yes, to some extent motoring needs to be made "inconvenient." It could be said that this has happened <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-groningen-grew-to-be-worlds-number.html" rel="nofollow">in Groningen</a> and other cities in NL where it is not possible to easily drive from one end to the other (you must go out to the ring road, around, and back in). However, thisDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-32584469658181707542010-05-03T23:01:36.322+02:002010-05-03T23:01:36.322+02:00To coin a fellow blogger's username, isn't...To coin a fellow blogger's username, isn't the elephant in the room the "Inconvenient Truth"?<br /><br />...the 'truth' being that for Britain to achieve anything like what David describes as being good for cycling, would mean the powers that be making motoring 'inconvenient'.<br /><br />As someone who owns a car, that isn't an intolerable situation, but Isla...https://www.blogger.com/profile/09569097700652272494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-29822941882094147692010-05-03T15:59:26.111+02:002010-05-03T15:59:26.111+02:00"This is one of the big problems with cycling..."This is one of the big problems with cycling in Britain. It's a talking shop. There are many proposals, much time is consumed in discussing things. However, little actually gets done, and what does get done is all too often done extraordinarily badly."<br /><br />Unfortunately I found that to be true of a lot of things that could have been useful: it's one reason I live here.<Andy in Germanyhttp://www.workbike.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-47800711051769583982010-05-03T12:46:15.194+02:002010-05-03T12:46:15.194+02:00"This is one of the big problems with cycling..."This is one of the big problems with cycling in Britain. It's a talking shop."<br /><br />Exactly. Back in 2000, the London Cycling Campaign was looking forward optimistically to cycling having a 10 per cent modal share in London by 2012. That is plainly not going to be achieved, even though the London boroughs all claimed to be enthusiastic about promoting cycling. <br /><br />freewheelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16731932510033958017noreply@blogger.com