tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post2367974829881694462..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: The most expensive bikes in the world ?David Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-60333520064460426012010-08-25T14:53:24.622+02:002010-08-25T14:53:24.622+02:00Hello David,
I'm no great advocate of cyclesh...Hello David,<br /><br />I'm no great advocate of cycleshare schemes, but they have done quite a bit in increasing the profile of the bicycle in Paris and here in Montréal (not in some ill-defined "Canada"). I always use my trusty old Raleigh sprite mixte and have not even tried out a Bixi. But the scheme has encouraged many people to commute, which they feared to do in large part lagatta à montréalhttp://www.lemab.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-22146081647441868672010-08-14T21:54:04.831+02:002010-08-14T21:54:04.831+02:00Green Idea Factory: Viewing the centre of the road...Green Idea Factory: Viewing the centre of the road as "victory" is an ideological argument which actually has nothing to do with whether a situation has been created in which people feel safe to cycle.<br /><br />Yes, of course the Netherlands has traffic jams. Whether they are "huge" or "everywhere" any more than in any other country would take some analysis. The David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-34222569753307701582010-08-14T21:40:02.533+02:002010-08-14T21:40:02.533+02:00David: I am not making excuses for "Copenhage...David: I am not making excuses for "Copenhagen Lefts" and I think that the "...nobody whines..." comment is pretty ridiculous.<br /><br />For me the centre of a road is a balance or feng shui sort of thing, and it also feels like victory. More people can do it if motorized traffic gets slower and there is less of it. <br /><br />Cycling is often faster and more efficient, but Slow Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12056080802746709323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-10301363273449930692010-08-13T19:56:39.775+02:002010-08-13T19:56:39.775+02:00Greenideafactory: I can understand your wanting to...Greenideafactory: I can understand your wanting to ride on the road if the cycling infrastructure is such that you make better progress by doing so. However, that's not the case here. I <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/11/commuting-speeds.html" rel="nofollow">ride faster due on cycle paths here than ever I did on the roads in the UK</a> - and that's rather excellent.<br /><br />IDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-46333502227126378972010-08-13T16:10:40.971+02:002010-08-13T16:10:40.971+02:00@Green Idea Factory - Emergency vehicles "can...@Green Idea Factory - Emergency vehicles "can" go at more than 20mph, but I managed to catch up with an ambulance on call when riding in London because the traffic was so bad.<br /><br />In terms of "efficient journeys" - London's road network is a maze of restrictions, closures, one way streets and gyratories. No idea why some just ride on the pavement instead. Some of christhebullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18058394246399615754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-87983015850625060292010-08-13T12:34:02.860+02:002010-08-13T12:34:02.860+02:00@David: Thanks. I am not trying to "hype"...@David: Thanks. I am not trying to "hype" Copenhagen, and you yourself have said that the infrastructure there is better than in most other places. Still, a new bike share programme there does not have the huge burden of creating new cyclists on its own, and rather creates new challenges about making cycling perfect (and they are looking at Dutch solutions). <br /><br />When talking Slow Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12056080802746709323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-52716346196439873722010-08-13T07:11:40.281+02:002010-08-13T07:11:40.281+02:00Green Idea Factory: I really don't know why Lo...Green Idea Factory: I really don't know why London's system is <i>so</i> expensive. As you point out, it's a lot more expensive per bike than some other bike share schemes.<br /><br />But please leave the Copenhagen hype for other posts. Copenhagen does not in my view have particularly great infrastructure, <br />and it has <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/12/David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-92091034279538076412010-08-13T04:51:56.004+02:002010-08-13T04:51:56.004+02:00Hi.
1 - Does anyone have any informed guesses or ...Hi.<br /><br />1 - Does anyone have any informed guesses or better about why this system costs so much? Just one recent example in <a href="http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/hawaiinews/20100810_Bike-rental_program_cycling_into_Kailua.html" rel="nofollow">Hawaii</a> seems like it might be expensive per bike as it is only starting with 14 bikes, but still it's only about USD 7,000 (less than Slow Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12056080802746709323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-38869807701217983742010-08-12T17:25:04.596+02:002010-08-12T17:25:04.596+02:00I suspect I might count as an advocate.
I'm a...I suspect I might count as an advocate.<br /><br />I'm also happy to concede something. I didn't look at the figures beforehand. In fact, I've only recently become interested in cycling issues. I've no idea if they were exaggerated. I've not studied them closely, only having looked at the figures on David's site here. What he says is persuasive and I believe him. As I saidarh14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-91618675083097328512010-08-12T11:19:28.443+02:002010-08-12T11:19:28.443+02:00Hi David
I am perfectly happy to concede that cyc...Hi David<br /><br />I am perfectly happy to concede that cycling in The Netherlands is a more pleasant experience than cycling here.<br />There isn't, afaik, any UK national organisation pushing for a cycling specific infrastructure between towns and cities that would be of use, and interest, to me. Sustrans takes me by meandering routes, that can be nice rather than quick, and often dumps medexeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-48029593551058530952010-08-12T00:26:59.400+02:002010-08-12T00:26:59.400+02:00The Boris Bikes aren't the most expensive bicy...The Boris Bikes aren't <a href="http://most-expensive.net/bicycle" rel="nofollow"><i>the</i> most expensive bicycles in the world </a>, but they are a lot of money.<br /><br />I certainly saw a few in use when in London today, with predictable usage patterns [hire points around the South Bank / Waterloo were nearly empty at 10:45 when I arrived in London, but full up, with cyclists waiting christhebullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18058394246399615754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-9685633065552156562010-08-11T19:24:16.131+02:002010-08-11T19:24:16.131+02:00Ian: I was with you for a while on the idea of tub...Ian: I was with you for a while on the idea of tube passengers using the bikes until I looked up the number of tube journeys per day. Sometimes <a href="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/7103.aspx" rel="nofollow">over four million journeys</a> are made on the tube in one day.<br /><br />The bike hire scheme has a maximum capacity, if we believe the original estimate of ten David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-52673653768054607302010-08-11T19:19:22.052+02:002010-08-11T19:19:22.052+02:00Dexey: I've lived in both places. I can tell y...Dexey: I've lived in both places. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that it's a hell of a lot less stressful to cycle here than in the UK. It's also a lot less stressful to watch your children go out and ride to school or to their friends unaccompanied than it is in the UK.<br /><br />This stress may not be much of a consideration to you. It wasn't to me either. We'reDavid Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-42699353589798258682010-08-11T19:03:44.772+02:002010-08-11T19:03:44.772+02:00Chris Jones said, "Just go for a ride in the ...Chris Jones said, "Just go for a ride in the UK - can you honestly say it's not stressful?"<br /><br />It is but it isn't my first consideration when deciding on a cycle trip and doesn't stop me riding. I found cycling around Spezi stressful; I couldn't get used to motorists offering me the right of way as I came, on cyclepaths, to roundabouts.<br />I'd bet there aredexeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-51775590396379891492010-08-11T12:44:34.912+02:002010-08-11T12:44:34.912+02:00I'm not with arh14 or schwartz on this one.
I...I'm not with arh14 or schwartz on this one.<br /><br />I think we can all agree that the scheme, when considered on its own merit, will not substantially increase modal share.<br /><br />So, what are we left with? It seems to me that the scheme can be best described as a very slick marketing ploy, at best up'ing the profile of cycling (although, I think Barclays maybe benefiting more Chris Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-85479485184096552772010-08-11T11:41:51.010+02:002010-08-11T11:41:51.010+02:00Another way to think about this:
The tube network...Another way to think about this:<br /><br />The tube network is running out of seats in central London. <br /><br />New tube trains are expensive and need new signalling systems to fit more trains on the line.<br /><br />A lot of tube stations are at capacity and need expensive upgrades. <br /><br />A lot of people change tubes and then end their journey with a 1 or 2 stop trip on a different Ian Ringrosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-90131536308819560772010-08-11T09:14:07.070+02:002010-08-11T09:14:07.070+02:00Well I love all Hembrow posts, but especially the ...Well I love all Hembrow posts, but especially the Netherlands specific ones. But these myth busters are really cool for arguing in favor of infrastructure too. It's all wonderful! <br /><br />Anyway, I had never really considered the cost of bike-share but generally seen it as a positive thing. They're bringing it to Long Beach (closest to LA). They're focusing on downtown and a Severinhttp://walkeaglerock.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-56298003146138698972010-08-11T06:59:20.219+02:002010-08-11T06:59:20.219+02:00Herb, I already did your first calculation at the ...Herb, I already did your first calculation at the very bottom of the blog post. This is absolutely the most optimistic spin you can possibly put on the figures, assuming that all the bikes work all the time, that all of them are used ten times per day every day and that none of the users would otherwise have brought their own bikes. These things have never happened on any bike share system David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-24610721415698045592010-08-10T23:36:46.352+02:002010-08-10T23:36:46.352+02:00Isn't playing with stats fun?
If you say cent...Isn't playing with stats fun?<br /><br />If you say central London is 1.5 million and Greater London is 8 million then that's a factor of 5.3 give or take. So multiply that by .3 to get 1.6% of trips, which for transportation planners is a large increase - probably over 100% increase.<br /><br />The 140 million pounds you quote is *over 5 years* so divide your numbers by 5. So that's herbhttp://ibiketo.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-3844285501934796282010-08-10T21:08:35.054+02:002010-08-10T21:08:35.054+02:00Here in the Denver, Colorado USA metro area, there...Here in the Denver, Colorado USA metro area, there are over 200 miles of off-street multiuse (walk/bike/[equestrian in some suburban areas])paths. Over time these paths are being connected to form a metro-wide network. Much of the funding for this originates in a state-sponsored lottery. If funding is a problem, a game of chance can be a solution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-80799542210809140822010-08-10T20:18:59.563+02:002010-08-10T20:18:59.563+02:00I'm with arh14 on this. His is the best explan...I'm with arh14 on this. His is the best explanation that I have seen of why this scheme is the best London will get.<br />Personally, I live several hundred miles West of London and enjoy my cycling in the Welsh borders as it is. What goes on in London is of minor concern to me. <br />Most aspects of the Dutch cycling infrastructure would be wonderful here but they are not going to happen, dexeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-6197036551004987062010-08-10T19:15:32.534+02:002010-08-10T19:15:32.534+02:00David, I appreciate what you're saying. I am a...David, I appreciate what you're saying. I am also inclined to agree with you on its effect on modal share. The figures too were perhaps exaggerated. (Though, given our media's hostile attitude to cyclists, frankly I'm not surprised). The only real way we can transform our modal share is by investing significant amounts in infrastructure.<br /><br />But here's the rub, as it standsarh14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-78642182545290301592010-08-10T16:49:31.501+02:002010-08-10T16:49:31.501+02:00arh14, James: I'd be behind bike share if not ...arh14, James: I'd be behind bike share if not for three things:<br /><br />1. It's been tried before and has <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/12/little-known-about-effect-of-bike-share.html" rel="nofollow">no proven history of success</a>.<br /><br />2. The numbers show that it can <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/03/velib-vel-on-and-other-public-shared.html" rel="David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-49727994961744483802010-08-10T15:18:09.975+02:002010-08-10T15:18:09.975+02:00I'm worried about this here in Boston. The la...I'm worried about this here in Boston. The last thing I want to happen is a lot of money spent "for bikes" with no tangible result. Wasted money now means a harder slog for money in the future, spent on useful stuff.<br /><br />There is also a saying in research labs, "good ideas come from elsewhere", and the same seems to hold for fuel price increases. In the US at dr2chasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16320828055999939449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-76918995871871635272010-08-10T14:31:17.792+02:002010-08-10T14:31:17.792+02:00I'm with arh14 - bike sharing isn't the si...I'm with arh14 - bike sharing isn't the silver bullet to substantially increase modal share. But its presence alone on street corners all over the city will help to make cycling as an accepted mode of transportation in car-centric cities.<br /><br />As badly as I want better cycling infrastructure, I still need to respect the democratic process - which is why I spend a lot of time trying James D. Schwartzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454437680686627778noreply@blogger.com