tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post2348526950067838749..comments2024-02-24T06:21:30.987+01:00Comments on A view from the cycle path: Riding e-bikes does not lead to health benefitsDavid Hembrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-59110906255506627122018-09-17T17:58:42.642+02:002018-09-17T17:58:42.642+02:00Thanks for sharing this study.Thanks for sharing this study.seiklmeiklhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17153138853126372218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-72463671482595563512018-09-16T08:24:23.919+02:002018-09-16T08:24:23.919+02:00I enjoyed the article and the discussion below. I ...I enjoyed the article and the discussion below. I think you're entirely right in your initial assessment and in your replies to the commenters below. <br />What's most unfortunate about e-bikes is how they now 'pollute' the wonderful means of transport that is cycling.<br />We're more and more disconnected from the real world of which our physical body is an integral part, to marmotte27https://www.blogger.com/profile/13546042630903943203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75437792419282307902018-09-15T00:29:01.537+02:002018-09-15T00:29:01.537+02:00CevO: It seems we disagree about language as well....CevO: It seems we disagree about language as well. Well, that's OK.<br /><br />As for your question, if you were to use your title to report on a study which concluded that a particular class of diesel cars polluted less than old vans then you would need a title which suggested that one polluted less than the other. The title which you suggest makes a much bolder claim that that which would David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-16103517241309598282018-09-14T22:47:02.278+02:002018-09-14T22:47:02.278+02:00David,
I'll be brief since we are never going ...David,<br />I'll be brief since we are never going to agree. <br /><br />I'm sure there are studies that tell me that Euro 6 cars with high-tech soot filters and running on bio-diesel contribute less to air pollution than old Ford Transit vans. So in your world I can then say: 'Driving diesel cars does not contribute to air pollution'. I invite you to re-read the title of your CevOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16208014513120868821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-4162909556481945812018-09-14T21:48:05.792+02:002018-09-14T21:48:05.792+02:00Mattias: Thanks for your comment. All the points o...Mattias: Thanks for your comment. All the points out make about trees, air pollution, mental health, stress etc. are of course completely valid, especially if your point of view is from a country where it is hoped that people will take to e-biking instead of driving cars. I think chance of getting people to abandon cars and ride e-bikes on roads where people are still driving a lot is very David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-64975060222831104942018-09-14T21:10:42.185+02:002018-09-14T21:10:42.185+02:00CevO: The goal posts haven't moved a millimete...CevO: The goal posts haven't moved a millimeter. The blog post has not been changed and what I was trying to communicate when I remote it also has not changed. You keep returning to the title which you seem to have misunderstood.<br /><br />You've placed a lot of emphasis on the title and you've misunderstood it. Note the grammar: e-bikes is plural. Also, the use of passive voice. David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-50822448985966428172018-09-14T21:08:39.534+02:002018-09-14T21:08:39.534+02:00David,
You are talking about no need for my vast ...David,<br /><br />You are talking about no need for my vast amounts of text from the study, but those are important remarks to think of. The remark of Erwin as well (BMI and weight of fat vs muscles).<br /><br />Concerning e-bikes I would have formulated the conclusion more like the following three paragraphs. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't have been 'bizarre responses'.<br /><br Mattiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17560217721639214025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-78715435921347705852018-09-14T16:43:45.976+02:002018-09-14T16:43:45.976+02:00David,
You're shifting the goal posts. Wherea...David,<br /><br />You're shifting the goal posts. Whereas initially you post a blog entry with the title 'Riding e-bikes does not lead to health benefits', in my book a blanket statement that is not supported either by the study you referred to nor by the studies I linked to, you now argue the following:<br /><br />1: e-bikes do not contribute to a better health in the way that CevOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16208014513120868821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75601400187426746552018-09-14T11:46:25.376+02:002018-09-14T11:46:25.376+02:00CevO: Regular exercise is required for health. It ...CevO: Regular exercise is required for health. It doesn't really matter too much how the exercise is taken, be that by bicycle, walking, or by pedaling an e-bike or a stationery exercise bike or other equipment. All those things can be used to exercise and it all will have a similar effect.<br /><br />What is highlighted by this study is that the outcome for users of e-bikes is in fact David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-51149080363009375702018-09-14T09:25:20.323+02:002018-09-14T09:25:20.323+02:00Hi David,
Thanks for getting back on this one. Yo...Hi David,<br /><br />Thanks for getting back on this one. You're right, they refer to the same Basel study, two of them. I'm sorry, I was a bit rushed and I knew I'd seen some studies on e-bike health benefits before so I googled quickly without looking into which was which.<br /><br />However, I absolutely disagree with your assessment on the objective and the outcome of the study. CevOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16208014513120868821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-72218199036483617802018-09-13T22:31:28.262+02:002018-09-13T22:31:28.262+02:00Belle: You're motivated to pedal with your max...Belle: You're motivated to pedal with your maximum effort so of course you will get exercise when riding any bike. Anyone who is motivated to work hard can get exercise doing almost anything physical. That's obviously true. But it's not the question that this study sought to answer. Please see my reply to CevO above.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-71588310608078436742018-09-13T22:25:45.027+02:002018-09-13T22:25:45.027+02:00CevO: Thank you for your contribution. The studies...CevO: Thank you for your contribution. The studies that you refer to exist in the same universe as the study which I based the blog post on. They do not contradict each other, they merely ask different questions which have different answers. I'll explain how below:<br /><br />You posted links to two studies (I believe two of your links refer to the same Basel study). First a correction: The David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-83645785295031286392018-09-13T21:38:38.559+02:002018-09-13T21:38:38.559+02:00I have an e-trike and I have not seen any differen...I have an e-trike and I have not seen any differences in my heart rate while training in a unmotorised velomobile or on my assisted trike. In both vehicles I put in my maximum effort. With the assisted trike the motor just adds extra speed. Without motor top speed is around 22 and with motor it is 32 for me. Same with the velomobile: the aerodynamics adds speed to my performance. Without the hullBellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18088190574998060171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-49157101325155915572018-09-13T19:49:16.523+02:002018-09-13T19:49:16.523+02:00Googling for 30 seconds yielded these result:
htt...Googling for 30 seconds yielded these result: <br />https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27299435<br />https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00042752-201805000-00002<br />https://www.medindia.net/news/riding-an-e-bike-benefits-health-and-fitness-181340-1.htm<br /><br />Please note that the last link refers to a study among 65000 participants.<br /><br />You have extensively reported on a study CevOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16208014513120868821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-75616055684465730532018-09-12T21:57:01.207+02:002018-09-12T21:57:01.207+02:00Erwin: What you said about BMI and muscle mass is ...Erwin: What you said about BMI and muscle mass is of course absolutely true. However I don't think it really applies to this study, which is concerned with average people and not with athletes.<br /><br />Mattias: I read the study and anyone else can do so too at the link above. There's no need to reproduce vast amounts of text here.<br /><br />I did not invent the idea that this study David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-11364317716830063252018-09-12T19:46:36.810+02:002018-09-12T19:46:36.810+02:00Het hangt er helemaal vanaf hoe je de e-bike gebru...Het hangt er helemaal vanaf hoe je de e-bike gebruikt. Als je altijd in een hogere ondersteuning rijdt en niet je best doet om harder te fietsen, zal dit verhaal zeker opgaan.<br />Als je, zoals ik, bijna altijd met de laagste ondersteuning fietst en dan evenveel kracht gebruikt als op een gewone fiets, ga je harder en is het net zo goed voor je conditie.<br />En bovendien fietsen mensen met een Henriettejahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00867981865556522896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-76179307580865141602018-09-12T19:35:16.990+02:002018-09-12T19:35:16.990+02:00*sigh* You did it again :-)!
Health: Health may b...*sigh* You did it again :-)!<br /><br />Health: Health may be defined as the ability to adapt and manage physical, mental and social challenges throughout life.<br /><br />BMI: The BMI is an attempt to quantify the amount of tissue mass (muscle, fat, and bone) in an individual, and then categorize that person as underweight, normal weight, overweight, or obese based on that value. <br /><br />Mattiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17560217721639214025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-233196990747266502018-09-12T19:23:02.384+02:002018-09-12T19:23:02.384+02:00BMI can actually go up if you start to spend serio...BMI can actually go up if you start to spend serious amounts of time cycling, as kilos of fat are exchanged for kilos of muscle. My own BMI has hardly changed when I went from 3000 km per year to 14000 km, but I'm much fitter now.<br /><br />Greetings <br />Erwin and Tante Lies Erwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13050008059194931813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-53379080219650428372018-09-12T18:49:01.920+02:002018-09-12T18:49:01.920+02:00Mattias: You seem to be concerned that what I wrot...Mattias: You seem to be concerned that what I wrote in the blog post before I responded here to Andrew's comment hasn't been changed. I didn't change it because it remains correct. The study shows that the average user sees no health benefit from riding an electric bike over driving a car or using other kinds of motorized bicycle. To see personal health benefits due to exercise when David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-54112099817813632632018-09-12T18:30:21.666+02:002018-09-12T18:30:21.666+02:00David, you agree to Andrew, but then you do it aga...David, you agree to Andrew, but then you do it again with "the health benefits of the individual rider" or in the article "shouldn't be a surprise that the health benefits of cycling disappear if you fit a motor to a bicycle" or "If you're a healthy and able human then an e-bike is as bad for your health as any other motorized vehicle such as a motorbike or a car.Mattiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17560217721639214025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-29360432264600813672018-09-12T17:48:58.855+02:002018-09-12T17:48:58.855+02:00Andrew, thank you for your comment. I agree with a...Andrew, thank you for your comment. I agree with all of what you've said. All those points are valid and they're all subjects of other posts on this blog. The study which this post is about, though, is limited only to the health benefits of the individual rider so I kept it short this time and wrote only about that.David Hembrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14543024940730663645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3102538965694240940.post-71258740345740638132018-09-12T17:34:30.931+02:002018-09-12T17:34:30.931+02:00A fair blog title might be 'e-bikes don't ...A fair blog title might be 'e-bikes don't reduce rider BMI.'<br /><br />But it's surely not accurate to claim that there are no health benefits.<br /><br />Cleaner air is one health benefit. Another is reduced injury and death which is associated with widespread car usage. We might also look at things like commuter stress, livable streets, reduced environmental noise. It's a Andrew WDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00337784104074104357noreply@blogger.com